Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sacramento

Problem with direction in RC

Recommended Posts

Hi to all:My flight plan as marked to a heading of 254Degrees, and RC in a flight as told me this:"Fly heading 080 degrees until receiving...."Whel this is almost turn to back....something wrong with the Flight Plan or this is a common error?Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Need more information.Paste your .pln file in a response and was this a vector for intercepting an ILS or LOC? Where were you in the arrival traffic pattern? Please check out the manual for near side and far side approaches. Also note if you were using FS9 or FSX and your plan heading to the airport.Make sure any ATC commands are acked ASAP in most cases as this could stall RC if not done and you might be farther out on a downwind then RC intended if that was your arrival pattern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi:Thanks for your reply...This problem happen in cruise flight, after a few miles departure! RC say all the flight to "Fly to Heading 080..." and only stop when we start approach!In fact all commands are acked ASAP, and i don't notified for any downwind...This is .pln file:[flightplan]title=EDDF to LFPGdescription=EDDF, LFPGtype=IFRroutetype=1cruising_altitude=31419departure_id=EDDF, N50* 2.00', E8* 34.23', +000364.17departure_position=7Ldestination_id=LFPG, N49* 0.58', E2* 32.87', +000390.42departure_name=Frankfurt/Maindestination_name=Charles-De-Gaullewaypoint.0=EDDF, A, N50* 2.00', E8* 34.23', +000364.17,waypoint.1=FRD69, I, N50* 5.14', E8* 45.36', +000000.00,waypoint.2=Fix01, I, N50* 0.08', E8* 48.31', +000000.00,waypoint.3=NONKO, I, N49* 47.70', E8* 23.97', +000000.00,waypoint.4=ADENU, I, N50* 1.53', E6* 54.50', +000000.00,waypoint.5=NOSPA, I, N50* 1.23', E6* 42.68', +000000.00,waypoint.6=NTM, V, N50* 0.95', E6* 31.91', +000000.00,waypoint.7=RALAM, I, N50* 0.87', E6* 22.52', +000000.00,waypoint.8=DIK05, I, N49* 55.32', E6* 13.68', +000000.00,waypoint.9=DIK, V, N49* 51.68', E6* 7.78', +000000.00,waypoint.10=IDOSA, I, N49* 44.50', E5* 52.19', +000000.00,waypoint.11=TOLVU, I, N49* 37.52', E5* 22.30', +000000.00,waypoint.12=RAPOR, I, N49* 35.48', E5* 12.78', +000000.00,waypoint.13=RENSA, I, N49* 31.98', E4* 53.13', +000000.00,waypoint.14=GIMER, I, N49* 21.93', E3* 58.43', +000000.00,waypoint.15=PODUK, I, N49* 14.77', E3* 21.03', +000000.00,waypoint.16=BSN, V, N49* 11.30', E3* 3.39', +000000.00,waypoint.17=Fix02, I, N49* 7.08', E2* 13.39', +000000.00,waypoint.18=CI09R, I, N49* 0.33', E2* 14.28', +000000.00,waypoint.19=LFPG, A, N49* 0.58', E2* 32.87', +000390.42,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I imported your plan into FSBuild converting your custom waypoint coordinates. I am attaching the navlog:Here is the map it drew:Your first custom waypoint is 8nm from EDDH. This means to RC that you are using a SID and will do your own navigation without vectors. It is then 5 nm to your next custom waypoint, and then 20 to NONCO. NONCO is outside of the RC departure zone and you should be headed toward it by your nav gear. The plan shows your heading.In the 30 nm limit departure zone you must cross within two miles of the indicated waypoint and then within 5 nm outside of that area. If RC started vectoring you in that area or just beyond it means you did not get credited for crossing a waypoint and it is vectoring you back to get on course for the missed waypoint. (I know I am repeating this but if you do not ack an RC message before reaching a waypoint it will not give you a waypoint credit.) In the status section of RC you'll see the next waypoint it wants to see you cross and it will pop off as you get credit. In addition in RC options you can elect an audio ding as you get credit for each waypoint.It is also possible that with bank limitations on your aircraft you missed the two nm radius limit on those almost 90 degree turns.The cruise waypoints are mostly shallow turns.Shortly after BSN RC will start issuing vectors and at that point you can ack the assigned runway and first vector and then elect to do an IAP which means you'll be free to do your own navigation.If you need to loosen RC commands during departure or arrival you can use the NOTAMS option.The only other item that can cause RC to vector you before arrival is missing your crossing restriction altitude about 40 nm out. NOTAMS does not release you from hitting that altitude at FL110 (11,000 feet with standard altimeter pressure in that area) or FL120 (12,000 feet standard pressure) since you are above the transition altitude in those areas. The altitude assigned depends on if you are doing a nearside or farside approach to the assigned runway. If that altitude is missed then RC will vector you around until you reach or go below the crossing restriction. Standard altitude means a pressure setting of 29.92 in or 1013 mb in your altimeter reference. You can tell when RC is using a standard pressure reference as if RC requests an altitude in feet it wants you to use surface pressure and if it commands an altitude as flight level it is expecting you to use standard altimeter pressure.Don't use the FS 'B' key to set the altimeter as FS has hard coded a transition level of 18,000 feet (FL180) worldwide and that is not the case. If you wish to know the transition level RC will use at your airports it is shown on the controller tab.It is a bit hard for me to understand where your turn around occurred in your description probably because of a missed waypoint. Hopefully I covered the possibilities for that problem.Here is the .pln after I imported yours into FSBuild redoing your custom coordinates to match its format:[flightplan]title=EDDF to LFPGdescription=EDDF, LFPGtype=IFRroutetype=3cruising_altitude=34000departure_id=EDDF, N50* 01.59', E008* 34.13',+000364.00departure_position=25Rdestination_id=LFPG, N49* 00.35', E002* 32.52',+000392.00departure_name=FRANKFURTdestination_name=PARIS_DE_GAULLEwaypoint.0=EDDF, A, N50* 01.59', E008* 34.13', +000000.00,waypoint.1=N50051E008454, I, N50* 05.00', E008* 45.20', +000000.00,waypoint.2=N50001E008483, I, N50* 00.00', E008* 48.10', +000000.00,waypoint.3=NONKO, I, N49* 47.42', E008* 23.58', +000000.00,waypoint.4=ADENU, I, N50* 01.32', E006* 54.30', +000000.00,waypoint.5=NOSPA, I, N50* 01.14', E006* 42.41', +000000.00,waypoint.6=NTM, V, N50* 00.57', E006* 31.54', +000000.00,waypoint.7=RALAM, I, N50* 00.51', E006* 22.31', +000000.00,waypoint.8=DIK05, I, N49* 55.22', E006* 13.45', +000000.00,waypoint.9=DIK, V, N49* 51.41', E006* 07.46', +000000.00,waypoint.10=IDOSA, I, N49* 44.29', E005* 52.11', +000000.00,waypoint.11=TOLVU, I, N49* 37.31', E005* 22.18', +000000.00,waypoint.12=RAPOR, I, N49* 35.28', E005* 12.46', +000000.00,waypoint.13=RENSA, I, N49* 31.59', E004* 53.08', +000000.00,waypoint.14=GIMER, I, N49* 21.56', E003* 58.26', +000000.00,waypoint.15=PODUK, I, N49* 14.45', E003* 21.02', +000000.00,waypoint.16=BSN, V, N49* 11.17', E003* 03.23', +000000.00,waypoint.17=N49071E002143, I, N49* 07.00', E002* 14.10', +000000.00,waypoint.18=CI09R, I, N49* 00.34', E002* 18.48', +000000.00,waypoint.19=LFPG, A, N49* 00.35', E002* 32.52', +000000.00, If you are navigating by FMC or GPS and you are using their built in database terminal procedures it is important that RC have the same waypoints as expanded into the FMC LEGS table so everything is in sync.Here is a tip sheet about accomplishing this with FSBuild or similar planner. Note paragraphs 6 and 11.----------------------About waypoint crediting and altitude monitoring:First, for large flight path direction changes, larger airliners will preemptively ahead of the waypoint start turning when navigation is coupled to an autpilot directed by an FMC or GPS. This depends on aircraft speed and the setting of the bank limitation.In RC terminal areas, that is within 30 nm of departure and 40 nm of arrival you must be within two nm of a waypoint and in the enroute portion five nm of the waypoint center.To correct the preemptive turning for large aircraft outside of these limits, try slowing the aircraft for these known high directional changes. Alternately revert to MCP control of heading to delay the turn slightly. You'll get a bit of overshoot as you manually turn on course.If you get a Resume Own Navigation command or report On Course from a NOTAMS situation, that means from your present position to the next checkpoint. This also applies to requesting the extended menu direct next checkpoint when granted by RC. Do not return to the original path because RC is monitoring your heading to see if it complies with the heading shown in the RC status area. In the case of weather detours, you can return to your original path and then declare you are back on course.For the occasional missed waypoint go to the extended menu (9), select direct checkpoint, select it from the list, and once again go directly from your present position direct to it. Know how on an FMC/FMS to move up the checkpoint if needed on the LEGS page and activate the change. Know how to do this in a GPS if necessary. The RC status area will show you the heading expected upon approval of the change.Another issue regarding waypoint credits is an outstanding ack of an ATC command. If you missed acking an ATC command, RC will not recognize a crossed credit waypoint.Yet another issue is performance of the RC/FS workstation. If a lot of resources are used by add-ons that can slow RC's monitoring and response performance be sure you have the latest add-on service packs and latest FSUIPC installed. In RC be sure on the general page that Display Text is disabled. Prerecorded Chatter should also be disabled ( it is just random stuff not related) and only AI Chatter and Interact with AI are enabled.Check out the RC manual regarding departure restriction choices preflight regarding choosing your own departure navigation within the first thirty nm. If your plan filed to RC has a waypoint within 30 nm of the departure airport you'll have to select altitude or no altutude restrictions. I this case No Departure Procedure will not be available. RC will not issue vectors and you will be expected to navigate on your own to the first waypoint outside of that boundary.For arrival after approach issues you your assigned runway you can elect to navigate an IAP to the selected runway on your own. RC will then not issue vectors and you'll have to get on final with your own navigation. If the airport has tower control the next RC response will be landing caution then clearance to land.Regarding altitude monitoring:Some aircraft exhibit a tendency to delay or even briefly descend before climbing. This can trigger an RC warning. Very briefly delay an ack to an altitude command until the aircraft is properly behaving. RC must see a change in altitude of at least a hundred foot rate of climb or descent. To accommodate this you may have in the case of climbing need to slow your aircraft to allow it to pitch up to increase lift and your rate of climb. If you need to step climb to approach your cruising altitude initially file a lower altitude and then request change of altitudes enroute. Remember to put your correct class of aircraft in the RC general options page regarding prop, turboprop, jet, or heavy.To loosen RC monitoring constraints within departure and arrival check out the NOTAMS option in the manual.If you are cruising at or above 10,000 feet or FL100 for arrival about 40 nm out you will get a crossing restruction of 11,000 or 12,000 feet (FL110 or FL120) that must be met. If you do not comply RC will issue delay vectors until you do - period. The election of NOTAMS preflight in the RC controller page does NOT relieve you from this restriction.Correct altimeter pressure settings for the stage of flight is crucial to RC monitoring. See the manual section regarding local pressure and transition altitude-flight level settings. Unlike FS ATC whuich uses a global transition altitude of 18,000 feet, RC uses real world transition altitudes for each airport area. In the Controller page of RC you will see the transition altitude where altitude using local altimeter pressure is used changes to flight levels using 'standard' altimeter settings of 29.92 in. or 1013 mb in a climb or back to local pressure on descent. RC will present an audio voice stating "altimeter check" when a reference change is needed. Generally if RC commands an altitude in feet, local pressure as delivered by RC should be set. If RC commands a flight level (that's altitude in feet = flight level times 100 so FL110 is 11,000 feet with standard reference pressure) set your altimeter as appropriate. (The FS 'B' key for pressure setting is useless for areas where the transition altitude is other than 18,000 feet and with RC is not a good habit to use to set the altimeter.) Some airliner models have an EFIS control that will toggle between standard pressure and your set local pressure that let you set expected local pressure in advance such as while cruising in flight levels before you get to transition altitude on descent requiring change to local pressure. This keeps adjustment to a minimum. You can get depending on your weather application and how it applies changes your "expected" departure and arrival surface pressures from the METAR reports in advance of flying.Remember that navigation instrumentation is an aid to the pilot and navigation procedures must be adjusted to comply with ATC. For the early part of departure if receiving vectors it may be best to use MCP or manual AP control, or fully manual control. The same applies to arrivals.For syncing RC monitor waypoints to an FMC I am attaching a hint sheet based on FSBuild on similar flight planner. Yet another issue is performance of the RC/FS workstation. If a lot of resources are used by add-ons that can slow RC's monitoring and response performance be sure you have the latest add-on service packs and latest FSUIPC installed. In RC be sure on the general page that Display Text is disabled. Prerecorded Chatter should also be disabled ( it is just random stuff not related) and only AI Chatter and Interact with AI are enabled. Pay particular attention to step 11.-------------------------------FSB tips:1. Include this line in FSbuild.cfg:NAVCHKDUPDIST=100This decreases the chance of using the wrong duplicate named local (to the airport) waypiont from a nearby airport. Local waypoint names are not exclusive. It decreases the database search when it is named in the route to within a 100 nm radius of your airport. You will find these in terminal procedures such as "D" number something within a SID or STAR to define a merge or turning point.2. When doing a Auto Generate (Route) be sure the SR (Stored Route) button next to it is "up" that is not highlighted. Auto Generate will use a stored route if found by default and most are out of date with old waypoints and terminal procedures. Having Stored Routes off forces it to search a path with fresh data. (Now off by default in version 2.4.)**REVISED 6/16/11** 3. FS Build database updates will be exclusively released through navigraph.com. It should be part of the FMC data line. For those not familiar with Navigraph each subscription term (cycle) includes multiple format downloads at no additional cost. This is very convenient for aligning FMC/navigation equipment databases with the flightplanner so among other things ATC data and your nav equipment data should match as you send a plan to ATC and then load it including terminal procedures into your FMC. The 2.4 upgrade includes the thirteenth cycle of 2010. The FSB upgrade is free to 2.x version users and is available via your order history on simmarket.com.4. Where an airport uses specific runways for different terminal procedures select the runway using an estimate based on weather and if the runway fits your aircraft requirements before doing the Auto Generate. This helps select the correct SID and STAR for the runway and direction of departure and arrival.5. After the Auto Generate and/or first build look at the map created to spot any obvious errors. In the route grid look for any sudden non-sensible changes in direction or extremely long legs not in the correct direction creating a zig-zag in the map. (See item 6 following to correct).6. Be aware there is an option you can set for each session titled "Build Route from Grid Table". It does not stick between sessions. This lets you build from an edited route grid that you may have modified without recreating the table with the same error on your next build/export. For example you might wish to drop an errant waypoint when proofing the map and rebuilding.7. Sometimes the name of a procedure (SID/STAR) does not match the name exactly in a published route and the procedure will not expand into its plan waypoints in the grid table. You can click on the arrow in the SID/STAR box to see what close name is in the FSB database. (Another reason to keep up with AIRACS.) For example KMSP has a current real such as this one:http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KMSP/DP/WAUKON+THREEbut the FSB database only has UKN2. (It does have UKN3 now with the latest available AIRAC update). If so in the route line just change UKN3 to UKN2 so it will expand. Here's a real route from flightaware.com for KMSP to KMDW:KMSP UKN3 DBQ CVA MOTIF3 KMDWthat can be pasted into the FSB route line. If UKN3 or MOTIF3 does not expand in the route grid to individual way points look in the upper part of FSB in the airport section dropping down the SID or STAR box to get the available version and substitute that label in the route line and rebuild. Note that the SID and STAR dropdowns may follow the chosen runway in certain areas.8. Sometimes it takes a second build to get the map to move and/or magnify. The mouse scroll wheel lets you magnify. Just click on the portion of the map you want to center on and scroll to magnify.9. If you click on a line in the route grid table to highlight it, the waypoint on the map will turn red. This is useful for finding errant waypoints that cause an error in the path. That line can then be edited or deleted and a rebuild accomplished with the build option to build from the route grid table.10. If you are running a weather program such as active sky, first build the route in FSB exporting to FS9 using an anticipated cruise altitude and specify the nearest aircraft profile. In AS get the weather you wish to use. (I always get the weather for the zulu time of the departure in FS since time of day affects weather characteristics). Import the plan into AS via the new route button, check the altitude and choose an appropriate true airspeed in knots (this is your no wind ground speed). Process the route. When it is finished click the button to print a hard copy of all. Use this AS navlog for METAR data at both ends and winds aloft and temperature aloft that can be used for FMC data. (You'll also get your estimated average wind at your specified altitude - handy for FMC data.) Leave AS running. Now go back to FSB and your chosen aircraft profile. Enter the surface temperature from your departure METAR, then estimated total taxi time, hold time, and extra time (sometimes called discretionary fuel). Now turn on again your FS9 export along with any FMC export you might use. Rebuild and you'll see the messages regarding the export completion. On the route selection on the left which brings up your route window select the navlog tab and click the .pdf to save the navlog in a file or the print button to get a hard copy so you can easily reference the estimated fuel and other data. This estimated fuel has now taken into account your winds aloft data - no need to enter it in FSB. Now that you have the hard copy and exported your route, you can first optionally save the plan by selecting flightplan window, then clicking the category tab, then select user category. Now click file, save from the menu bar. The name you might want to embellish. Click Save Route To User Flight Plans. For another session, you can recall this working plan and just build.11. If you are using an aircraft with nav equipment that has its own terminal data procedures in its nav equipment (think FMC) you might wish to use step 6 above to take out the waypoints of the terminal procedures keeping just the transition points and build and export with just them. This easily in most cases lets you select the SID and STAR assigned by ATC on your nav equipment by providing a clean legs list in your nav equipment. If you need ATC to monitor the waypoints of the terminal procedure than just export all. To keep ATC and you nav equipment in sync, you might consider importing the full plan into your nav equipment and not using your nav equipment procedure database.This is kind of long but through experience I've described some tricks I've used watching out for any pitfalls.Be sure to check the FSBuild forum for updates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites