Should get this? Those of you have played with it - what are the highs and lows?I currently use the FSD Sceneca V as my standard twin, and I'm not too happy with it, especially the views out the windows.So for those of you who have both, I would really appreciate your comments.ThanksRichard

IMHO it's the best $12.50 I've spent! I got my multiengine rating in an Apache many years ago. This model is very true to form. The extras he puts in are a nice touch also.I don't think you'll go wrong buying it. Remember tho, the Apache is/was not evar considered a high performance twin, so if you're looking for something to zip through the skies, this isn't it.It's fun to fly and the visuals and attention to detail are excellent.Just MHO,Vic Baron

Check out my post about the apache here:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=set..._page=show_mesgIt's a special package, with a fenced runway that is tricky to land on. One of the flights gave me the apache with a girlfriend in the right seat and a cute dog in the back, wiggling its tail at me! I like the looks and feel of the apache, and with the pricetag of only $12.50 you can't go wrong. I think you'll like it.:D

I laughed out loud at some of the little 'extras' Bill put into this one. It's great fun. Also, Bill has contributed so much to the hobby (my hangar is full of aircraft that he made available as freeware when FS9 came out) that I was happy to support his work. For $12.50, why not?BlairCYOW

I never hesitate to buy anything that Bill Lyons releases. Always the best value for the money.

I know Bill's stuff is good. Still, a few more specifics about the plane would be nice.

>I know Bill's stuff is good. Still, a few more specifics>about the plane would be nice.What kind of specifics are you looking for? It flies like a real apache, doesn't hit framerates badly. Visuals are very good.Door opens and closes. Panel(s) are nice. Other than that, it's a good buy.HTH,Vic

That will do - credit card time.thksRichard

aww here was me thinking that you were talking about the AH-64 Apache ahh well guess that'll have to wait :)James

Richard:Lets us know what you think if you do get the Apache.BlairCYOW

I liked it so much I went back and bought the Stinson package.

I now have had a good 5 hours on the Lyons' Apache, and I am totally in love with it. So much so, this post is divided into 2 parts: a brief view of it (review is too strong a word), and a flight which goes down as my all time favourite simulated flight.The ApacheRead Bear's review. I would concur for the most part. Note, while a practising PPL, I have never flown any twin in real life. Plus points* The view out of the cockpit is great (bye bye FSD Sceneca).* The external look of the plane is a joy to behold. Agreed Bear - creme and red is cute. * The passenger is a vast improvement on the control panel pictures of Bill's other creations! (those were difficult to explain to an 8 year old daughter...)* All those little add ons in his scenery provide real atmosphere. For example your passenger moves slightly. When you get going, is that a bird's nest in the port engine or a cobweb?* Personally I didn't have any issue with the grating engine sound that Bear talks about.* Why can't other developers allow us to use the mouse as well as Bill has? No more shift-e to open a door, just click on the handle.* The instrument panel has a great RMI with ADF and Nav2 VOR needles. You don't see many (any?) of those about in FS.Small criticisms* The 2 and 3D panels are slightly substandard compared to other payware offerings. At the default view, some of the gauges are hard to decipher, particularly the all important Manifold Pressure gauges. You have to keep zooming in and out again on those. I think a seperate gauge panel for multi-monitor users would have worked.* It is equipped with a very basic IFR package, but no DME (not one I could find anyway). Presumably that was the case in the 50's. But if you don't cheat (ie use the GPS), it makes IFR flight challenging to say the least (see my flight story).Quirks of the Apache (could be reality or issues with Bill's model - don't know). * The RPM gauge hardly moves, whatever you do with it. * Instinctively don't trust the speeds. For a twin which was apparently pretty underpowered, it's rate of climb seems extremely good. On the level it gets to 140/150 kts very quickly (and sustains this even at 2050 RPM and 20 inches - the recommended low fuel burn cruise), and it is a devil to slow down, you really need to think well in advance regarding slowing down to 106 Kts (gear lowering speed). * Coming up to the flare, you may have trimmed all the way back, but there is still a lot of back pressure required on the control column to keep the nose up. I actually like this, you really get the feeling that you are landing a heavier aircraft. You also need to keep power on till the last moment or she plummets to the ground at this point.A really nice package. My top 5 list of FS aircraft now has 3 Lyons' planes on the list (the Apache along with the Cub and the Moth). I would have given it 4 stars out of 5. If you like twins - go get it! Trial IFR Flight.So how do you get from A to B in IMC without GPS or a DME. I don't know, but I thought I would find out.I set up the Apache at Bowers (KELN) for a non flight-planned trip to Pangborn (KEAT).I set the weather for winter. Overcast was created by using the 1' overcast cirrus cloud approach (you need a file found on in the library) at about 2500'. Above that, overcast cumulus with plenty of turbulence and icing through to about 6000'. To make life more interesting I set up a 15 knt Westerly crosswind.The route crosses a mountain range peaking at about 7000', then there is a sharp drop to the next valley where Pangborn is. It's only a 25-30 mile trip, so you have to climb sharply to clear the mountain range, and descend sharply to get to Pangborn.I set up Nav1 on the Ellensburg VOR, sited just to the east of Bowers, and Nav2 on Winatchee VOR at Pangborn. My initial plan was to follow the Ellensburg 003 radial, estimate the time taken to clear the peaks, then start the descent on the Winatchee VOR.I took off on runway 25, then intiated a steep ascending right turn, and carried out a 60 degree intercept on Ellenburg. On entering cloud, the windows and wings iced up (yes, Bill's put in graphics for that too). I realised my obvious mistake - hadn't switched on the deicer! The ASI died, and in the panic, I missed the turn for the 003 degree radial!Calm down Richard. Switching the Deicer on did nothing to the ASI. A 120 degree left turn brought me back on to the radial, and I maintained the climb on an MP of 23" (RPM wouldn't go above 2100).Breaking out of the clag at 8000', I leveled out. ASI was still broken, so I reduced the MP to 20.5. OK - in control once more. Coming up to my anticipated descent point, looking down, I could see trees and the top of the mountain not too far below. All of a sudden, the realisation comes that you really are in deep dudu, not knowing how far away you are, and knowing you have to descend into the cloud/mountain at some point. Fighting back the urge to look at the map or the GPS, my first thought was to wait a while and then intiate the descent. But I thought, hold on, if this was the real world, there would be know way I would do that not knowing the terrain below. What to do? While mulling this over in real time (no the pause button hadn't been touched), the solution presented itself. It struck me that I could use the 2 VORs as a form of triangulation. Once the Nav2 (Winatchee) needle started swinging round, it would mean that I was overhead Pangborn. Looking at the sectional, the valley where Pangborn is situated is narrow, but I guessed it could accommodate a rate 1 descending turn. Sure enough the needle started swinging, and I commenced a descending turn into the clag. Very tense stuff!At 2,500 feet I came out of the clag into some great vanilla COF scenery. Pangborn was just below, and the walls of the valley uncomfortably close. I circled and greased the landing onto runway 25.To my mind, this is what FS is all about. Thanks Bill and Lynn!Anyone know of better ways of flying in IMC with these instruments? I have saved the flight and would be happy to send to anyone interested via PM.Richard