Has anyone else found that the HJG Boeing 727s (both the -100 and -200 variants) seem to be virtually uncontrollable by the autopilot at lower altitudes? I'm speaking here of speeds ranging from 200 KIAS down to around 132 KIAS (what I've been using for final approach speed with flaps set at 30 degrees). Changing flaps settings doesn't seem to matter much, either. At 200 KIAS, before turning onto base course, with no flaps deployed, turning the a/c causes it to begin to pitch wildly up and down. This usually settles after ATC informs me I'm 300 ft above my assigned altitude and the a/c seems stable again. On base, I set speed for 180 KIAS, still with no flaps deployed. Then when I'm vectored onto final, the same thing happens. Again, after a time of pitching up and down, the a/c stabilizes and I deploy about 15 degrees of flaps, throttling back to 160 KIAS. After intercepting the localizer and engaging APR mode, I reduce speed to 132 KIAS, set flaps to 30 degrees, lower the gear, and arm the spoilers. As the a/c intercepts the glideslope, it pitches down to over 2,000 fpm and never recovers.BTW, I'm not using any of the HJG 727 panels. They're works of art and I'm sure are accurate insofar as looks and taking into account the way 727s were actually equipped, but I'm a duffer who's never been anywhere near the cockpit of a commercial jet (except on exiting the a/c), and I want a relaxing, enjoyable flight, not a white-knuckle crash course in what flying a commercial jet is really like, which is why I tend to favor Microsoft's default a/c. So I've cobbled up a panel for my 727s that incorporates GPS and uses the default 737-400 AP.I'd ask about this in the HJG Boeing forum, but I've read all through that, and their response to similar questions seems to be that the planes fly "just fine" as is. Maybe the 727s really did fly like that, but I've encountered that particular problem with few, if any, other a/c I've ever flown in FS9, including both payware and freeware a/c.I've tried increasing the value of the pitch_stability setting in the aircraft.cfg file, which didn't help. I also tried a different autopilot setup (in aircraft.cfg) which was kindly provided by someone in this forum regarding another user's issues with the Captain Sim 727s, and that didn't help either. I do have the latest version of AirEd, and wouldn't at all mind fiddling with some values in the .air files if I had the remotest idea what to look for.Any constructive suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Or if anyone can tell me of a payware 727 that's actually relatively easy to fly, that would also be appreciated.

The only thing I can think of is the B727's weight is too high for an approach at 132 KIAS. That could cause you to stall at some point. This could also be the cause of the up and down pitching during turns on your approach. Turning requires more lift to maintain altitude and you may be near the lift limit (stall point) of the wings.If my overweight "guess" is correct, try the same flight after removing three-fourths of the fuel. Otherwise, I'm stumped.As far as editing the .air file is concerned, that's usually not necessary. In most cases, the aircraft.cfg file can be edited to accomplish the same thing. Many entries in the aircraft.cfg simply override the same thing in the .air file.Good luck, Robert. Let us know how it goes.Regards,JerryH

The plane had less than 8,000 lbs of fuel onboard during the experience I described above, and flew nicely in level flight. It was only when the AP intercepted the glideslope and started its final (and I do mean FINAL) descent that the uncontrollable pitching began. As to problems maintaining pitch during turns, I think I've alleviated that somewhat by making sure the plane's wing tanks run dry before the main tank does.I found some useful info regarding recommended landing configuration and speeds at: http://www.boeing-727.com/. I just tried another approach to KMEM using their recommended setting of flaps 5, at 137 KIAS, with the same result as before. There I was about 8 nm out, flying with that much flap at that speed with no problem, but as soon as the AP intercepted the glideslope and began to descend, it started to auger right into the ground.Only thing I know left to try, short of modifying the aircraft,cfg or the .air file in some way (about which, when it comes to aerodynamics, I'm clueless) is that I've restored the author's original AP section, even though I'm using the default B737-400 AP instead of the one built into their custom panels. Using their AP and/or panel isn't a viable option for me, since I've no intention of going back to the Stone Age of relying on VOR-to-VOR or inertial system navigation. I'll try one more time, and if that doesn't work, I guess I'll give up.Too bad. In most respects the plane flies like a champ, and the folks at HJG have done a fabulous job of depicting the (then) contemporary liveries of the airlines which flew the 727. In fact, I like the plane so much I wouldn't mind paying for a good payware version, so long as it isn't too expensive and even more importantly, so long as one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to land the bloody thing.

Hello,It may very well be that the HJG supplied aircraft configuration file's autopilot section is not entirely suitable to use with a default panel, as Jerry eluded to. You might try making a backup of the aircraft.cfg file then copying the autopilot section from the default 737-400 and using that to replace the autopilot section of the 727 file. If that doesn't do the trick then just reinstate the backup. Also there is a Ken Mitchell 727 panel available at FlightSim.Com file name "727km_pa.zip" that you may wish to give a try. It is much more 727 like and yet is no more complex than the default 737-400.At 140 to 130 kts you might also need flaps full - 40 unless have no load and low fuel.I have the HJG 727 and panel set up and have no problems on approach / descent - very stable, which is why I expressed my thoughts about the aircraft.cfg and panel combination.I hope this helps.Regards,MelP.S. Sorry I missed your most recent post while I was typing. Still hope mine post is somewhat helpfull at least in part. I just noticed your from Lebanon. I'm a Hoosier at heart, born and raised outside of Greencastle and family all over west central Indiana.

At 200 KIAS, before turning onto base course, with no flaps deployed, turning the a/c causes it to begin to pitch wildly up and down. This usually settles after ATC informs me I'm 300 ft above my assigned altitude and the a/c seems stable again. On base, I set speed for 180 KIAS, still with no flaps deployed. Then when I'm vectored onto final, the same thing happens. Again, after a time of pitching up and down, the a/c stabilizes and I deploy about 15 degrees of flaps, throttling back to 160 KIAS. After intercepting the localizer and engaging APR mode, I reduce speed to 132 KIAS, set flaps to 30 degrees, lower the gear, and arm the spoilers. As the a/c intercepts the glideslope, it pitches down to over 2,000 fpm and never recovers.

i think its a combination of two things - HJG's aircraft were designed to both be flown realistically as well as tailored to use the panels they offered (particularly regarding engine and autopilot operation). while you can use other panels, you'll find some quirks using panels other than HJGs themselves.normally on approach/landing you want to fly a stabilised approach...a good rule of thumb is:

• on the initial approach reduce to 200kts (flaps 5 below 220 kias), then on base reduce to 170-180 (flaps 15).
• always ensure you use a 30 degree intercept angle to the localizer course if flying under autopilot or hand flying (it avoids excessive banking to intercept the final approach course).
• when established on final reduce to final approach speed and set flaps to landing setting (~150k/flaps 25, ~145k/flaps 30, ~140k/flaps 40).
• try to avoid extending the flaps while in turns as well - only extend when wings are level.
• ensure you're at your final landing speed and flap setting before you intercept the glide path to landing (a good reference point to use is before the outter marker or ~5 - 7nm from the runway on final.).

hope this helps and happy flying-xavier

Mel, Xavier, thanks for the helpful advice. Mel, I'd have followed your thought of trying the [autopilot] section from the default b737-400 in my panel for the HJG 727, but in the meantime I'd another idea. I visited Mike Stone's site, found he had a 727-200, and although there were only a few liveries, I downloaded and installed the plane, then took a short flight using my panel. The aircraft behaved perfectly, so essentially, what I did was to replace the original HJG FDE in the aircraft.cfg file with Mike Stone's, and voila! Problem solved. It may not fly anywhere near as realistically as HJG products seem to do, but it works, it's fun to fly, and I'd never know the difference anyway. Always glad to hear from a fellow (if former) Hoosier, too, Mel!Xavier, oddly, the only time I ever got anything like a stable approach using my panel with the HJG 727 w/original FDE was, after checking the full_flaps_stall_speed variable in the aircraft. cfg file (103 KIAS), I flew the plane into LAX using the AP on an ILS approach with full (40 degrees) flaps, with the speed at 112 KIAS! That plane was so pitched up I thought I'd end up landing on the tail! But it was able to track the glideslope adequately that one time, and AFAIK, neither I nor anyone else was killed when I landed. What got my search started was that 112 KIAS touchdown speed for a commercial jet just seemed ridiculously slow. Besides, as busy as LAX and many other major airports are, and given the way FS9 handles (or mangles) approaching traffic, there'd be someone right up your yin-yang in no time if you flew an approach at that speed.Anyway, I do appreciate the positive feedback, and I hope no one who reads this gets the idea I have any negative feelings about HJG. I also have their L1011, DC9, and MDx series installed, and consider them some of the finest freeware aircraft I've ever flown. It's just that to me, while I view simming as more than a game, I really don't want to have to spend days, weeks, or months trying to adapt to each aircraft each time I fly it. Consequently, when I bought the Wilco/feelThere CRJ series and found out how complex their FMC was, I ginned up a panel based on the default Lear45 and I've been happily flying the CRJs that way ever since.Cheers, and happy landings, everyone.