NADP2

[windsky 0]

Good afternoon captains,when im analyse the NADP2 climb diagram procedure, im recognize that PF after T/O (at about 800 -1000 ft) command to flaps up speed, the plane accelerate to flaps up speed +10 kt and then thrust is change from TO thrust to climb thrust. When im compare this climb diagram whith fs2crew software procedure for NADP2 im find, that in the "command window" appear first verification annoucment "climb thrust set" and after this verification annoucment appear command "flaps up speed". In my opinion in the NADP2, PF command first for flaps up speed and after acceleration to "flaps up speed+10 kt", PF announced "climb thrust set." Could you verify, that the NADP2 procedure, whitch is modelate in fs2crew software (clim thrust set and then flas up speed) is correct.Ondrej Benda LKMT

[damienw 1]

Good afternoon captains,when im analyse the NADP2 climb diagram procedure, im recognize that PF after T/O (at about 800 -1000 ft) command to flaps up speed, the plane accelerate to flaps up speed +10 kt and then thrust is change from TO thrust to climb thrust. When im compare this climb diagram whith fs2crew software procedure for NADP2 im find, that in the "command window" appear first verification annoucment "climb thrust set" and after this verification annoucment appear command "flaps up speed". In my opinion in the NADP2, PF command first for flaps up speed and after acceleration to "flaps up speed+10 kt", PF announced "climb thrust set." Could you verify, that the NADP2 procedure, whitch is modelate in fs2crew software (clim thrust set and then flas up speed) is correct.Ondrej Benda LKMT

NADP2 purpose is to fly as silently as possible over an area near but not very close to the takeoff point. To this effect you usually reduce to climb thrust and accelerate to clean speed only at 1500' feet (800ft is the minimum). Then up to 3000' afe you climb at clean speed. Thereafter you accelerate (again) to 250/enroute climb etc. The idea here is to use the space between the takeoff point and the noise sensitive area and get rid of excess flap drag while reaching a climb speed much closer to MAX ANGLE climb than v2+XX. Hence, when approaching the sensitive area you will be climbing reasonably fast over it and at a relatively efficient way fuel wise. In this case the procedure cannot be fully automated. You define your thrust reduction and acceleration altitude to those numbers BUT once the acceleration starts you need to SPD INTV in VNAV and set your clean speed in the MCP until 3000' afe (then "close" the MCP SPD window and VNAV will do the rest).Please make you have your FMC takeoff page 2/2 is setup correctly.

[windsky 0]

Thanks for your explanation, Damien.FMC takeoff page 2/2: In the first time i was used 1000 ft as reduce thrust height (reduced power) and 1000 ft as acceleration height. But in accordance whith NADP2 initial climb diagram im started to use 1500 ft as reduced thrust height and 3000 ft as acceleration height. I was set flaps up speed at 800 height, i was start flaps retracted at 800 ft in accordance whith schedule, at 1500 ft automaticly reduced thrust from t/o to climb thrust, between 1500 and 3000 i was achieve flaps up speed and in the 3000 ft i was accelerate to en-rout climb speed.After your explanation im beck to the first set up of the FMC takeoff page 2/2, it mean: 1500 - reduced thrust, 1500 - acceleration.Thanks Ondrej Benda LKMT

[windsky 0]

Good afternoon again captains,i was explored the NADP2 climb procedure and in my opinion i finded small mistake in fs2crew NADP2 procedure. In briefing window i was selected NADP2 procedure. When i was flying NADP 2 clim procedure, in command windows appears in 1 step this text: "climb thrust set" and in 2 step "flaps up speed". In my opinion this sequences for the NADP 2 are incorrect. The power reduction is to be performed with the initiation of the flap/slat retraction or when the zero flap/slat configuration is attained. There for the PF:in the 1 step is commanding "flaps up speed" and then in 2 step announced: "climb thrust set". In acceleration altitude airplane accelerate to en-route climb speed. My be, Damin wil have diferent opinion, but my I ask you Bryan to change in fs2crew software 737NGX succesion of the commands and announcment for NADP 2 procedure.HelloOndre Benda LKMT

[damienw 1]

Thanks for your explanation, Damien.FMC takeoff page 2/2: In the first time i was used 1000 ft as reduce thrust height (reduced power) and 1000 ft as acceleration height. But in accordance whith NADP2 initial climb diagram im started to use 1500 ft as reduced thrust height and 3000 ft as acceleration height. I was set flaps up speed at 800 height, i was start flaps retracted at 800 ft in accordance whith schedule, at 1500 ft automaticly reduced thrust from t/o to climb thrust, between 1500 and 3000 i was achieve flaps up speed and in the 3000 ft i was accelerate to en-rout climb speed.After your explanation im beck to the first set up of the FMC takeoff page 2/2, it mean: 1500 - reduced thrust, 1500 - acceleration.ThanksOndrej Benda LKMT

Ondrej,Have a look here please, http://www.b737mrg.n...37mrg_noise.pdfThe correct procedure is to set climb before you set flaps up speed. Also please have a look at this post written by Dr. Vaos from PMDG: http://forum.avsim.n...2-fmc-settings/Maybe this will help you to understand the procedure you describe is incorrect. Climb thrust is set before the acceleration to flaps up speed ALWAYS.Also have a look in the QRH provided by PMDG in the maneuvers section and it'll help explain your error.This is not going to change in FS2Crew.Regards

[windsky 0]

Mr. Damien,we are using the same diagrams for climb procedures, but our interpretations are diferent. You are pilot whith licence for boeing 737 NG and Im only simpilot who interest about piloting procedure. Discussion whith you is for me very helpfull (beneficial) and i woud like continue in our discourse. When im looking on NADP 2 diagram (source www.b737mrg.net) PROC B Im reading this: "at 1000 ft accelerate to flaps up speed, retract flaps/slats on schedule." "When flaps are up: maintain flaps up speed +10 kt, reduce to climb thrust." " At 3000 feet accelerate smoothly to en-route climb speed" . This sentences I was interpreted, that 1. step is acceleration to flaps up speed and then 2. step - is reduce from t/o thrust to climb thrust. Thank you Damien for your help. I would like discusse whith you about your piloting experiences. May be next topic soon.Hello Ondrej LKMT

[damienw 1]

Mr. Damien,we are using the same diagrams for climb procedures, but our interpretations are diferent. You are pilot whith licence for boeing 737 NG and Im only simpilot who interest about piloting procedure. Discussion whith you is for me very helpfull (beneficial) and i woud like continue in our discourse. When im looking on NADP 2 diagram (source www.b737mrg.net) PROC B Im reading this: "at 1000 ft accelerate to flaps up speed, retract flaps/slats on schedule." "When flaps are up: maintain flaps up speed +10 kt, reduce to climb thrust." " At 3000 feet accelerate smoothly to en-route climb speed" . This sentences I was interpreted, that 1. step is acceleration to flaps up speed and then 2. step - is reduce from t/o thrust to climb thrust. Thank you Damien for your help. I would like discusse whith you about your piloting experiences. May be next topic soon.Hello Ondrej LKMT

Have a look at this: http://www.captainpilot.com/files/B737/Aircraft%20Noise.pd , look specifically at "ICAO PANS-OPS NADP2" on page 21.This is a document from Boeing. Since my word as a trained pilot apparently is not enough to convince you,..this should be abundantly clear.It specifically says "At or aboe 800ft AAL initiate power reduction and retract flaps while accelerating to Vzf.

Have a look at this: http://www.captainpi...raft%20Noise.pd , look specifically at "ICAO PANS-OPS NADP2" on page 21.This is a document from Boeing. Since my word as a trained pilot apparently is not enough to convince you,..this should be abundantly clear.It specifically says "At or aboe 800ft AAL initiate power reduction and retract flaps while accelerating to Vzf.

And this document as well: See page 11 http://www.icao.int/environmental-protection/Documents/ReviewNADRD.pdf

[damienw 1]

Mr. Damien,we are using the same diagrams for climb procedures, but our interpretations are diferent. You are pilot whith licence for boeing 737 NG and Im only simpilot who interest about piloting procedure. Discussion whith you is for me very helpfull (beneficial) and i woud like continue in our discourse. When im looking on NADP 2 diagram (source www.b737mrg.net) PROC B Im reading this: "at 1000 ft accelerate to flaps up speed, retract flaps/slats on schedule." "When flaps are up: maintain flaps up speed +10 kt, reduce to climb thrust." " At 3000 feet accelerate smoothly to en-route climb speed" . This sentences I was interpreted, that 1. step is acceleration to flaps up speed and then 2. step - is reduce from t/o thrust to climb thrust. Thank you Damien for your help. I would like discusse whith you about your piloting experiences. May be next topic soon.Hello Ondrej LKMT

PROC B (Former ICAO noise abatement Procedure :( is no longer used. the new procedures are NADP 1 and NADP 2

[windsky 0]

Mr. Damien,thank you for your explanations and your pedagogical patient whith me. In our discussion Im confused NADP 2 and ICAO B (Procedure :(, excuse me. After your explanation its for me very clear. Your references to the internet links above, shift my intention to the arrivel procedures III. - V. and specific speed and vertical profile and descend and landing planing. My be this procedures will be in your tutorial. I will have some questions for you very soon.thank youOndrej Benda LKMT

[damienw 1]

Have a look at this: http://www.captainpi...raft%20Noise.pd , look specifically at "ICAO PANS-OPS NADP2" on page 21.This is a document from Boeing. Since my word as a trained pilot apparently is not enough to convince you,..this should be abundantly clear.It specifically says "At or aboe 800ft AAL initiate power reduction and retract flaps while accelerating to Vzf.And this document as well: See page 11 http://www.icao.int/...ReviewNADRD.pdf

Link was missing something, so here's a fixed one: http://www.captainpilot.com/files/B737/Aircraft%20Noise.pdf

[windsky 0]

Good evening, Mr. Damien, article "Airplane noise. Flight operation engineering", whitch you recommend me, make deeper my basic knowledge about T/O and climb procedure. Article "Review of noise abatement procedure....." focused my intetion to the noise abatement "approach procedure". I was finding "Sourdine II project", which explore approach procedure I., II. - Basic CDA whith 2°initial FPA and Approach procedure V with variable FPA segment at intermidiate configuration, with speed constraints. If I will find time during weekend i will try practiseing diffrences between approach procedure I, approach procedure II and V. in accordance with project Sourdine II (EIDW RNAV STAR: RIVER 1B, SUGOL 1B, REGSU 1) in FSX virtual space (of course) whith 737 NGX. It seems that this project Surdine II was carry out for airbus, but this 5 categorys of approach procedures are generaly applicable for every jet. Mr. Damien, could you recommend me some other "science" materials about categorys of "approach procedures", whitch is available for public on the internet.Thank you for your friendly attitudeOndrej Benda LKMTGood evening, Mr. Damien, article "Airplane noise. Flight operation engineering", whitch you recommend me, make deeper my basic knowledge about T/O and climb procedure. Article "Review of noise abatement procedure....." focused my intetion to the noise abatement "approach procedure". I was finding "Sourdine II project", which explore approach procedure I., II. - Basic CDA whith 2°initial FPA and Approach procedure V with variable FPA segment at intermidiate configuration, with speed constraints. If I will find time during weekend i will try practiseing diffrences between approach procedure I, approach procedure II and V. in accordance with project Sourdine II (EIDW RNAV STAR: RIVER 1B, SUGOL 1B, REGSU 1) in FSX virtual space (of course) whith 737 NGX. It seems that this project Surdine II was carry out for airbus, but this 5 categorys of approach procedures are generaly applicable for every jet. Mr. Damien, could you recommend me some other "science" materials about categorys of "approach procedures", whitch is available for public on the internet.Thank you for your friendly attitudeOndrej Benda LKMTGood evening, Mr. Damien, article "Airplane noise. Flight operation engineering", whitch you recommend me, make deeper my basic knowledge about T/O and climb procedure. Article "Review of noise abatement procedure....." focused my intetion to the noise abatement "approach procedure". I was finding "Sourdine II project", which explore approach procedure I., II. - Basic CDA whith 2°initial FPA and Approach procedure V with variable FPA segment at intermidiate configuration, with speed constraints. If I will find time during weekend i will try practiseing diffrences between approach procedure I, approach procedure II and V. in accordance with project Sourdine II (EIDW RNAV STAR: RIVER 1B, SUGOL 1B, REGSU 1) in FSX virtual space (of course) whith 737 NGX. It seems that this project Surdine II was carry out for airbus, but this 5 categorys of approach procedures are generaly applicable for every jet. Mr. Damien, could you recommend me some other "science" materials about categorys of "approach procedures", whitch is available for public on the internet.Thank you for your friendly attitudeOndrej Benda LKMTSorry my un expected mistake. I dont intended 2 copys of my one request.Ondrej

[damienw 1]

Strict Standards: Declaration of group_forum_breadcrumb::sendOutput() should be compatible with that of output::sendOutput() in /opt/webdocs/newsite/forum/hooks/group_forum_breadcrumb_d29bf565a59f776807044fd19e49258a.php on line 107

Good evening, Mr. Damien,article "Airplane noise. Flight operation engineering", whitch you recommend me, make deeper my basic knowledge about T/O and climb procedure. Article "Review of noise abatement procedure....." focused my intetion to the noise abatement "approach procedure". I was finding "Sourdine II project", which explore approach procedure I., II. - Basic CDA whith 2°initial FPA and Approach procedure V with variable FPA segment at intermidiate configuration, with speed constraints. If I will find time during weekend i will try practiseing diffrences between approach procedure I, approach procedure II and V. in accordance with project Sourdine II (EIDW RNAV STAR: RIVER 1B, SUGOL 1B, REGSU 1) in FSX virtual space (of course) whith 737 NGX. It seems that this project Surdine II was carry out for airbus, but this 5 categorys of approach procedures are generaly applicable for every jet. Mr. Damien, could you recommend me some other "science" materials about categorys of "approach procedures", whitch is available for public on the internet.Thank you for your friendly attitudeOndrej Benda LKMTGood evening, Mr. Damien,article "Airplane noise. Flight operation engineering", whitch you recommend me, make deeper my basic knowledge about T/O and climb procedure. Article "Review of noise abatement procedure....." focused my intetion to the noise abatement "approach procedure". I was finding "Sourdine II project", which explore approach procedure I., II. - Basic CDA whith 2°initial FPA and Approach procedure V with variable FPA segment at intermidiate configuration, with speed constraints. If I will find time during weekend i will try practiseing diffrences between approach procedure I, approach procedure II and V. in accordance with project Sourdine II (EIDW RNAV STAR: RIVER 1B, SUGOL 1B, REGSU 1) in FSX virtual space (of course) whith 737 NGX. It seems that this project Surdine II was carry out for airbus, but this 5 categorys of approach procedures are generaly applicable for every jet. Mr. Damien, could you recommend me some other "science" materials about categorys of "approach procedures", whitch is available for public on the internet.Thank you for your friendly attitudeOndrej Benda LKMTGood evening, Mr. Damien,article "Airplane noise. Flight operation engineering", whitch you recommend me, make deeper my basic knowledge about T/O and climb procedure. Article "Review of noise abatement procedure....." focused my intetion to the noise abatement "approach procedure". I was finding "Sourdine II project", which explore approach procedure I., II. - Basic CDA whith 2°initial FPA and Approach procedure V with variable FPA segment at intermidiate configuration, with speed constraints. If I will find time during weekend i will try practiseing diffrences between approach procedure I, approach procedure II and V. in accordance with project Sourdine II (EIDW RNAV STAR: RIVER 1B, SUGOL 1B, REGSU 1) in FSX virtual space (of course) whith 737 NGX. It seems that this project Surdine II was carry out for airbus, but this 5 categorys of approach procedures are generaly applicable for every jet. Mr. Damien, could you recommend me some other "science" materials about categorys of "approach procedures", whitch is available for public on the internet.Thank you for your friendly attitudeOndrej Benda LKMTSorry my un expected mistake. I dont intended 2 copys of my one request.Ondrej

No worries, the forum has been going wonky for me too.Have a look here for some information on Noise during approach: http://www.britishairways.com/cms/global/pdfs/csr/CSR_Noise_suppliment_1_BA_pdf_07_KMM.pdf

[damienw 1]

Strict Standards: Declaration of group_forum_breadcrumb::sendOutput() should be compatible with that of output::sendOutput() in /opt/webdocs/newsite/forum/hooks/group_forum_breadcrumb_d29bf565a59f776807044fd19e49258a.php on line 107

Strict Standards: Declaration of group_forum_breadcrumb::sendOutput() should be compatible with that of output::sendOutput() in /opt/webdocs/newsite/forum/hooks/group_forum_breadcrumb_d29bf565a59f776807044fd19e49258a.php on line 107No worries, the forum has been going wonky for me too.Have a look here for some information on Noise during approach: http://www.britishai..._pdf_07_KMM.pdf

This may also help with CDA as well: http://www.captainpilot.com/files/FUEL%20CONSERVATION/CONTINUOUS%20DESCENT%20FINAL%20APPROACH.pdf