this is an open letter to all of you great people who contribute so much of your time and effort to creating add-ons for this hobby. THANKS to you all. But often the installation instructions are incomplete or just wrong. For example, one popular download has an installation readme that states:"- Extract the folder contained in the zip archive into your FS Aircraft folder. The aircraft will be located under the manufacturer "iFDG Airbus".- Copy all files in the EFFECTS folder into your Flight Simulator EFFECTS folder."But there are FIVE files in the zip archive...Effects, Model, Panel, Sound and Texture.My guess is that you developers are SO informed about such installations that you sort of take for granted that everyone else is too but there are LOTS of mopes like me who are easily confused...even with FAQ's etc to refer to...which also are often confusing or have conflicting advice.So again, a genuine THANKS for all your hard work but an exact, step by step installation readme would be greatly appreciated.

"But there are FIVE files in the zip archive...Effects, Model, Panel, Sound and Texture."Those are not files but folders. Inside each of those folders are the files.This has been the general order of nomenclature since Windows 3.0file---->subfolder(if needed)---->folder----->directory---->driveHope this helps,JimActiveSky Supporthttp://www.hifisim.com/images/as2004proudsupporter.jpg

If the installation went correctly, all you need to do is follow the instructions and move the effects files. Don't worry about the other directories, they are right where they belong already. Do a Google search for something like "installing aircraft in microsoft flight simulator". It's real simple once it's explained to you.David

>this is an open letter to all of you great people who>contribute so much of your time and effort to creating add-ons>for this hobby. THANKS to you all. But often the installation>instructions are incomplete or just wrong. For example, one>popular download has an installation readme that states:>Snippage>>My guess is that you developers are SO informed about such>installations that you sort of take for granted that everyone>else is too but there are LOTS of mopes like me who are easily>confused...even with FAQ's etc to refer to...which also are>often confusing or have conflicting advice.>>So again, a genuine THANKS for all your hard work but an>exact, step by step installation readme would be greatly>appreciated.>Indeed, I find myself in complete agreement. My great wish is/would be that we'd find a standardized installation system which EVERYone would use. (Fat chance, I know!) For those who wanna jump in here to "prove me wrong" I'd caution you to really take a look at the downloads right here on Avsim. There's no standard. It's a hodge-podge of some do this, others do that. Most are indeed able to be "parsed" out but one could wish that the designer/creator would help a little more.

There are 'how to' files available in the following spots:Help in FS;Help in Windows;at the major sites like Avsim and flightsim.com;Authors Readme and/or *.doc files.I would also suggest you familiarize yourself with Windows Explorer with particular attention to folder/file arrangements, organization, and creation.I would also suggest that you become familiar with the folder/file arrangement with respect to FS.Thereafter, you'll discover that there is nothing wrong with the instructions given within the set that you quote: there's not much leeway with respect to how aircraft and their attendant files are placed in FS.I for one, have no care for those who upload files that are of the self-extracting variety because I prefer to keep control of my system and not relegate that control to someone else lest I become the victim of "something gone wrong". I realize there are obviously others out there who actually prefer not to have to bother sorting and placing, etc., and who would rather exchange ease of use for simple computer management, but that kind of file package I tend to steer away from or have it "open" in another spot removed from FS until I inspect the contents.

I'm with GCBarni on that one. I HATE self-installers, to the point where I would rather extract to dummy FS directories and move things by hand. If the self-extractor won't permit, then I simply don't bother with the aircraft, no matter how good. Too many files get overwritten or modified and who is to GUARANTEE that the developer knows more than you about YOUR FS installation? Even big developers get things wrong!Nobody but me puts things into my FS folder, that way I have no-one to blame but myself if something goes wrong - and most importantly I have a much simpler troubleshoot to find the guilty party if it does. There is no-one better at managing your FS than you, so the best thing to do is forget asking for standardised instructions and instead learn all about how to make the file structure work for you, as sooner or later you WILL need to!:-)Allcott

>I'm with GCBarni on that one. I HATE self-installers, to the>point where I would rather extract to dummy FS directories and>move things by hand. If the self-extractor won't permit, then>I simply don't bother with the aircraft, no matter how good.>Too many files get overwritten or modified and who is to>GUARANTEE that the developer knows more than you about YOUR FS>installation? Even big developers get things wrong! I'll second ( or rather Third ) that....... no way I put uninspected stuff directly into FS.Re the install instructions discussion _ I agree that the instructions need to be clear and unambiguous.OK - after you've done it a few times it gets easy I know - but there are always going to be "New" FS users who will need the step by step help at first.The sometimes lack of clear concise instructions is not limited to the basic FS addons of aircraft scenery etc - it apllies equally to some of the addon applications that you tend to get involved with for things such as online flying , scenery design etc.However - to be very fair - I think it is worth remembering that while we are conducting this discussion in English - many of those who give up their time designing addons of all kinds may not have English as their native language.I know the I certainly could not produce a useable readme for my scenery addons if I had to do it in French or German or whatever.:DDave

I too hate self installers, especially for scenery, mesh, landclass, etc. I prefer creating my own directories for this stuff which makes it a LOT simpler to keep track of things and to troubleshoot if necessary. With aircraft it isn't quite so bad as the directory/file structure is more standardized and simpler. I guess the solution is for developers who want to use self-installers to also give the option of extracting to a temp directory.David

deKovenA standardized installation implies an autoinstaller. Believe me you are much better off just learning the directory and file structure for addons than having to deal with the mess caused by just one auto-installation gone bad.David

Right, the word "file" was an error in my original post. The quote from the install instructions states to extract THE FOLDER but there are 5 FOLDERS.Regards,Jim

<>Exactly.

GCBarni wrote <>With appreciation for you advice, I am somewhat familiar with file structures and don't believe that the instructions as writtne are, in fact, correct.The instruction is to extract THE FOLDER...thereby implying the entire zip folder, into the <> folder...thereby implying the MAIN FS Aircraft folder. In reviewing my MAIN Aircraft folder, I find sub-folders with the names of specific aircraft and no folders named "model" etc. Those folders are in the SPECIFIC aircraft folders.Therefore, don't you agree that the instruction should be to extract the folders to your Boeing 777 folder or whatever specific aircraft the files are intended for? Seems to me that if your extracted the zip contents into the main FS aircraft folder, you would have a mess on your hands.TRUST ME I am not complaining here. Just trying to have a useful dialog in pursuit of more standardized installation procedures. I am not necessarily suggesting self-installers although with the few very highly respected add-on payware providers, I haven't had any more trouble than with the self-install proceedures.FOR SURE though, I submit that the VAST majority of simmers ARE NOT highly technically skilled people or even dyed-in-the-wool simming fanatics (the lovable kind). Rather, they are folks who want to have some fun SIMMING and not messing around with files structures and complex/conflicting installation instructions.So, to positively impact the greatest number of participants in the hobby more care and standardization of installations is a nobel goal. Why spend SO MUCH time as these great add-on developers spend to make their contributions only to have people find themselves unable to use the end product?Thanks for the dialog.Regards,Jim

Forgive me, Jim, I am not trying to quibble or start an argument, so please do not take my comments in that way.There is something that you are not taking into account. Freeware authors are enthusiasts, just like you. They are not necessarily experts in creating aircraft, scenery, or other add-ons. The only difference between them and you is that they go ahead and make modifications to Flight Simulator. All this requires tremendous effort, a large period of learning (and there is NO official school of FS development), a lot of trial and error, and much, much time.They are not obliged to share their work with the rest of us (and many of us do not distribute our work outside of a small circle of friends, specifically in order to avoid the petty complaints.)So, when an author offers his work to the community, we should view it as a gift. A gift is not necessarily beautiful, perfect, or even what we want, but why complain? We did not pay for it.Perhaps, instead of complaining, everyone could make an effort of their own, some by learning the simple steps needed to install the different types of add-ons - and this is not at all complicated - or even by doing something about what they feel is so wrong with the freeware package.If the aircraft does not have the right shape for the tail, go ahead and make an aircraft yourself. Installation instructions not clear? Please don't hesitate to write the perfect instructions and post them in the library. It is easy to sit back and complain of someone else's work. But, we are a community where contributions from all are, and should be, quite welcome.Best regards.Luis

JimThe zip extractor should place the "iFDG Airbus" folder into the FS9 Aircraft folder, and the other 5 folders into the iFDG Airbus folder. If it places all 6 folders as subfolders of your Aircraft folder then something is screwed up. This is exactly why I always prefer extracting to a temp folder; I can make sure everything extracted properly. If the structure is OK I can move the whole thing to where it belongs in FS9, and for aircraft that's one "cut and paste". If the extraction didn't go properly I can easily fix it before moving it into FS9.Davidedit >The quote from the install instructions states to extract THE FOLDER but there are 5 FOLDERS.

Luis, it is unfortunate that you entirely misread and/or misinterpreted my post. I went out of my way to compliment the fine people to contribute their work to this hobby and quite honestly, I don't think your speech on that subject was warranted.The point was to encourage some sort of standardization and quite frankly, accuracy, in the installation instructions. I say again, that those who go to all the trouble of doing the work would have the fruits of their labors enjoyed more broadly...which I think is their intent...if better installation instructions were included.Actually, Luis, I have downloaded add-ons that included no instructions whatsoever.But your attitude is to the effect that if you don't like it then create the add-ons yourself. But that sort of attitude is the opposite of the very reason that there are great forums such as this. these forums are to share ideas intended to improve the enjoyment of the hobby.Regards