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barryoo

Aircraft Flaps Control On Client

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Using Client live view, a pilot left view and copilot right view camera is set for each aircraft. FSX is configured as 2D and 100 transparent. The camera configurations are sometimes set 2D and other times VC. I really do not see much difference in those settings other than zoom differences. Anyway - I am having problems with A2A C172 trainer. It is the only aircraft that will not communicate flap positions to the Client. (ie: the flaps are always up). Is anyone else having a problem with that?

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The OpusFSX server communicates the flap data within the simulator reported via the SimConnect interface. So if this is not changing then no data will be communicated. You could open the Spy window and monitor the comms link between server and client (not the position update link, the other one). Each time you change flaps or turn the lights on etc. you should see a status update sent from the server. If this being sent then the server will be detecting a change and reporting it so the problem will be on the client side. Is your aircaft in a state that will accept the new flap command. Does it need power etc.. First isolate at which end the problem lies then you can investigate further from there.

 

Stephen

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The server's Spy window reports what looks like a sound initialization when a light switch is turned on or off. When the flap control or a switch is pushed on the server's A2A aircraft panel the nav or beacon lights go on or off on the clients aircraft but the clients aircraft engine also shuts down and prop stops.

 

There is also a problem with Getting the client's A2A 172 trainer to auto start. The SHFT-2 thru SHFT-5 keys used for aircraft configurations, like auto start, pitot cover, battery status, etc., will not display when FSX transparency is set to 100.

 

I will test again to see if the flaps activate when using the FSX default 172SP on the client when running the A2A C172 on the server. ( Think I tried it though and it did not work).

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Thanks Barry, let me know about the default 172. I will also take a look at it at this end. I will set up a system and try it out with various aircraft.

For auto start you could just save the flights on the client with the A2A 172 already running.

 

The Spy window for the comms link, not the main Spy window, should indicate a STATUS update or something similar. Only going by memory but I will set up a system and let you know for sure.

 

Stephen

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OK, mine works fine. Make sure you open the Spy window alongside the Networked - General Updates green connection. Each time the flaps are moved or the lights are turned on/off you should see an AIRCRAFT CONTROLS UPDATE message sent from the server.

 

Check your client Configuration dialog and make sure Live View, Live Weather, Live Camera etc. are all enables and that FSX is selected as the simulator connection. If not you may have to re-Browse for and identify the install path or folder of your sim, then restart the FSXCLIENT program.

 

If you have a correct Live View connection then Networked - Position Updates link will be sending rapid position updates, otherwise it will send one update every few seconds.

 

Stephen :smile:

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Selecting on the client, the FSX 172SP with engine running, I still receive the same effect. The default aircraft flies well, just as the clients A2A C172 flies well, but the flaps do not work on either client aircraft. To reinterate: This is a specific aircraft model problem. The flaps on all other client/ server aircraft work well.

 

Your recent responses: Thank you.

comma link spy window means client computers spy window, right?

Yes I have a Network "position update" every second or so.

 

 

Your response: OK mine works fine.

Does that mean you have actually loaded the A2A aircraft and the flaps go up and down on the client? If so I am in trouble mode.

 

I have checked my client conf. again. Everything is set as it should be.

 

My server spy, position updates are going crazy, thousands of them.

My server spy, general updates: (light switch) I get a single 50 byte length aircraft control update. (flap lever) " There is no update. "

 

On my client spy, position updates are 1 per second

On my client spy, general updates: (light switch) I get a single 50 Bytes entry. (flap lever) " understandably - there is no update "

 

Summary: The A2A does not communicate a flap lever instruction ( I am actually actuating the flap lever via mouse on servers aircraft control panel. No Saitek, etc.)

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Just to clarify - we don't have the A2A C172,  only the default FSX C172 aircraft.

 

No matter how you control the flap the sim should still change the flap event within the sim which in turn will generate an event via SimConnect. It depends how the software generates the event in FSX. I will check the software to see what event it is but we can only act on the flap data that is given to us by FSX through SimConnect. If that doesn't change then we will not be notified.


The very rapid position updates are important, they confirm you are operating in Live View mode as opposed to just 'No Connection to Sim' mode. We tested a variety of aircraft and the flap movements are all reported as usual. As Cheryl said, we can only report changes that are notified to us through the SimConnect link, these reflect any changes in the simulators flap status or position data. It looks like that one sim, the A2A C172 is possibly not changing the data inside the sim when you operate the flaps, hence we do not receive any changes to the flap status. Unfortunately, that is the only way we can detect such changes. I will check over the weekend to see if there are any other SimConnect variables that can be used but I'm not sure there are. If not you may have to ask A2A to make sure they reflect their flap status changes in the simulators data. I will let you know if I find anything.

Regards
Stephen :-)

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Thank you for your time I have been trying to get A2A to do something for quite some time. Your suggestion to have A2A reflect their flap status changes in the simulators data, is a far mare technical approach than mine and will be entered into my A2A forum post.

Thank you for your time I have been trying to get A2A to do something for quite some time. Your suggestion to have A2A reflect their flap status changes in the simulators data, is a far mare technical approach than mine and will be entered into my A2A forum post.

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FYI ...

 

We monitor and communicate the FLAPS HANDLE INDEX variable (0 = Up, 1.. Progressively Down, 255 = Down). This is the only general flap indication that is controllable (i.e.. settable) within SimConnect. Hence, using this standard variable is the only way to control or set the general flap position on the client. A2A simply need to set this standard variable to indicate their flap position for it to be relayed and reflected on the client systems.

 

Stephen :smile:

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Hi.

This is from A2A:

 

We use flaps, but we use them directly by writing their actual position into fsx using simconnect. If opus is listening only for keyboard events to raise or lower flaps, they are not sent.

 

The variables we use for current flaps position are standard fsx variables named "Trailing edge flaps left/right percent". They can be read using simconnect from client computer.

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Many thanks.

 

Hi

We only look at the above FLAPS HANDLE INDEX (0 = flaps up, 255 = flaps fully down) parameter as mentioned above. This variable is a general All Aircraft parameter. We relay this SimConnect variable as its a genera flap indication parameter that is not aircraft specific and of course it is controllable or settable, hence the client is able to set the parameter on the remote system.

Any chance they can set this standard SimConnect variable as well, as it is listed as pertaining to 'All Aircraft' ?

Stephen :smile:

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If they cannot do this I will look at relaying all the leading/trailing edge left/right percentage variables. I have just checked they are all supposed to be controllable. It just depends whether the A2A sim just uses these to 'say' what the flap status is, and do NOT use them as a controls or directives, controlling or moving the flaps to a new position.

 

Its my belief this is what the standard and aircraft non-specific FLAPS HANDLE INDEX is for. It has the standard 0 to 255 range representing flaps up to fully down and is listed as an All Aircraft variable within SimConnect.

 

If A2A are unwilling to add this variable could you ask them to confirm that they will treat the Trailing Edge Left/Right Percent signals as a control, and not simply as there output signal to show what the flap status is currently. I don't want to implement these changes only to find they are pointless. I will implement it if needed and leave it to you to test the results, but would prefer confirmation from A2A.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Stephen :-)

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Let me know as soon as you have any confirmation, or even a no response, from A2A and I will prepare something for you in a beta.

 

Stephen :-)

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A2A responses:


Post subject: Re: A2A c172 Flaps do not work on Opus Client computerPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:34 am

Staff Sergeant


Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:30 pm
Posts: 292
Location: N07, 12N, KLDJ, KCDW
I'm not an A2A rep but you should consider what is being stated by the developer.

A2A is seeing the actual flap position and not the flap lever position. I can only guess at the reason for this but I suspect that A2A needs to do this so they can simulate behaviors that can not be modeled if the flap position is left as a derivative of the flap lever function.

Instead of telling the flap motor to move flaps from position 1, 2 and 3, they are the motor itself. I imagine this is how they can model the wiggling and loose flaps during preflight as well as broken flaps while inflight.

This is a fundamental difference in operation. If course this is only my interpretation of what has been stated.

----------------
----------------

Post subject: Re: A2A c172 Flaps do not work on Opus Client computerPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:07 pm

A2A Lieutenant Colonel


Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:56 am
Posts: 1076
Location: Poland
In FSX the same result can often be achieved in several ways, and all of them can be viewed as "standard". But once you start to develop systems beyond fsx defaults, everything gets much more complicated, not every way becomes the "right" way. And it gets impossible to maintain compatibility with every addon on the planet.

In this particular case, the variable suggested by Opus is a simple flaps switch position. Since the first accusim aircraft years ago, we have used a more sophisticated system that allows us to directly control each flap independently, and this variable is not compatible with it. For some of our airplanes it does not even make sense, P40, P47 and B17 don't have typical flaps controls, their flaps can be set smoothly to any position between min and max.

 

[COMMENT]

The FLAPS HANDLE INDEX (0 = flaps up, 255 = flaps fully down) is listed as a general All Aircraft parameter. It does not measure the flap handle position as simply 1,2,3 etc. it actually measures the current flap 'control' as 0 = fully up to 255 = fully down, 1 to 254 = all positions in between. So you can STILL use the control to indicate ANY flap position totally independent of the aircraft type. That's why this percentage type variable is for 'All Aircraft'. Stephen.

{/COMMENT]

 

Even if we somehow managed to set this variable while still using our system for flaps control, you won't see on your client computer any of the advanced accusim features, like flaps wiggling, jamming, assymetric flaps deployment etc. Which defeats the purpose of doing it.

 

[COMMENT]

True, sounds good to me but never personally known it to happen in the real world in nearly 20 years of flying and a lot of my friends fly 172s all the time. I will include the Trailing Edge... signals for the user to try. Stephen.

[/COMMENT]

_________________
Michael Krawczyk

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The FLAPS HANDLE INDEX (0 = flaps up, 255 = flaps fully down) is listed as a general All Aircraft parameter. It does not measure the flap handle position as simply 1,2,3 etc. it actually measures the current flap 'control' as 0 = fully up to 255 = fully down, 1 to 254 = all positions in between. This makes it independent of the aircraft and allows it to be used as a 'general' control signal.

 

This standard SimConnect All Aircraft parameter and 'control' works with ALL other aircraft except it seems the A2A 172.

 

I understand the response ...

 

Simulating the very rare occurrence of flaps jamming asymmetrically sounds very good to me (never known anything like that happen in nearly 20 years of flying myself), but this still does not really answer my question ...

 

Will the sim 'see' the Trailing Edge Left/Right Percent values as a control and move the flaps ?

 

This is what I would have liked to know. Its no good me setting these parameters in the client if the aircraft sim is simply going to treat them as indicators and not controls. All that will happen is the aircraft sim will just overwrite them again with the actual flap positions and NOT move the flaps to the new commanded positions.

 

I will alter the software for A2A (all other aircraft work just fine and treat the FLAPS HANDLE INDEX as a scaled 'percentage type' control) but it would be nice to know the flaps will move to their new commanded position (even though the  FLAPS HANDLE INDEX signal has NOT changed and is indicating the flaps are commanded to be up).

 

If it is the sim code that is moving them and the aircraft sim is FROZEN out (since the sim is operating in FROZEN mode) then it should work fine. I don't mind adding these new variables just to cater for this one single aircraft and any others that are going to allow for asymmetric flap positions.

 

But remember ...

 

The FLAPS HANDLE INDEX control signal will NOT be changing, it will still be saying 0 = flaps commanded to be up.

 

If this control remains at 0 (flaps up) but the other signals say something different I am not sure how the sim will respond. The sim may need all the control signals. In which case A2A will still have to reflect the 'commanded' flap position using the FLAPS HANDLE INDEX signal and 'in addition' show the actual status in the other 'Trailing Edge...' signals. On the other hand, the Trailing Edge... signals may just move the flaps.

 

I suppose with no definitive answer I will have to include them and you can try it out.

 

 

Stephen :smile:

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