Hello,Flying around in the Realair Spit, I've noticed through repeated experimentation that I can quickly jam the throttle from idle to past 18lbs+ of boost during a botched landing and not experience any torque roll effects at all. In the real world (sometimes I hang out there too) :(, wouldn't suddenly jamming up a 2000+ horsepower Griffon from idle to war emergency power at low altitude at near stall airspeed, with gear and flaps down, send ya into a violent torque roll? The Realair Spit does not seem to model this at all in this particular situation, but of course maybe there is something I don't understand about aerodynamics and Spitfires. I have all FS2004 realism sliders maxed to the right (I'm a baaaaaad girl).Thanks in advance for all your collective observations/retorts/fuming rants/helpful tips, oh you gentle people of the AVSIM forums.

You're not by any chance using the contra-prop version? :-)BestGrahame

It seems a long time since I smiled and laughed spontaneously on reading a post but this did it for me...lol Hopefully you'll visit us more often in the future :)Can't comment on the Spit, but I'll have a go and see what happens.Cheers!Mike

No, was using the regular single-propped spit, sans the extra contra prop. :)

TY :) Please let me know what your opinion is.

DianneI hope you didn't mind my attempt at being funny, I've flown the Spit quite a lot, but almost exclusivly the contra-prop version. (Actually mostly the clipped-wing racer, 'cos I'm not into camoflage(sp?)paints.) But you've certainly got me interested now, and I will try the normal version for you. It's only a matter of time before someone from RealAir sees this and replies anyway, which should give you an answer. Don't forget that Rob Young did the airfile, and if he did it, I'd be VERY surprised if it isn't as real as you can make it in FS!I'll try it this evening and see how it is.BestGrahame (EDHL)

Hello Dianne,First, can you please check in your aircraft/realism menu that you have put the general realism slider to maximum, and also the p-factor and torque sliders to maximum.You can see the torque quite easily in spot view (close up) or from the cockpit by panning to the right, observing the wing. If you hold the brakes then quickly apply max throttle (or even much less than max) you'll see a distinct dip of the right wing.The time when (as you may know) when both p-factor and torque assert themselves most is when an aircraft like the Spitfire is in a state of high angle of attack and slow airspeed, and less so on take off unless you really abuse the Spitfire. If you are flying slowly with a high AofA and then quickly blip the throttle again you will see the torque kicking in. Also, if you stall the Spitfire and then (perhaps encourage by a little right aileron) invoke a right wing drop, then push the throttle forward whilst maintaining stick back you should see a very marked torque roll to the right and a collapse of lateral stability. You can even invoke a violent torque snap roll and spiral to the right by doing this.If you take off with large amounts of throttle, of course the right undercarriage is resisting the torque roll, but if the throttle is high enough there is indeed enough torque to lift the left wheel off the ground.In our consultations with various Spitfire luminaries it became clear that some sim developers over-exaggerated torque roll on high powered aircraft. Indeed Dudley Henrique, who has reviewed Spitfire, told us that p-factor (i.e. the drift factor in essence) is much more marked than the torque factor in high torque aero engines of this type.Therefore, we feel (as Dudley does) that we got the torque about right.Kind Regards,Rob Young www.realairsimulations.com

Hi Rob,Thanks for the very detailed and informative reply! I think I'd better learn not to under-estimate you guys in the future, sheesh. I'm very impressed with your level of research and commitment to flight modeling fidelity. I do always fly the Realair Spit with FS2004 realism sliders at max, but I think it's more of a situation of myself not understanding the real aircraft's characteristics after having read your response. I was reading one of Dudley Henriques' real-world articles on piloting the P-51 and he detailed how he would take student pilots up to a safe altitude, then slow the aircraft down to 130kts IAS or so, idle the throttle, drop the gear (undercarriage to you Brit types :( ) and flaps, then jam power to max at once, resulting in a impressionable torque roll. Dudley goes on to mention in the same article that he has never had one of his former students 'torque one in' on a go-around after this demonstration. I can see now that the Spitfire obviously has more benign characteristics in this respect unless the aircraft is, as you say, at an extreme low speed/high AOA situation when unbridled power is applied. I'm guessing now that the P-51 is far less tolerate of power misuse. One learns not to over-generalize hot prop aircraft and to more thoroughly familiarize themselves with individual aircraft characterisics instead. :)This is such a great learning experience for laypersons such as myself, gosh. Thank you again Rob. I hope I didn't torque anyone off today :(

Dudley commented, regarding **'s excellent Mustang, that MS2004 does not model torque roll very well. Even the Mustang (all realism to the 'right') will not roll over as advertised.As for the "3,000', 125 mph, gear down and jam the throttle," technique to teach Mustang pilots, that was also done during the war for the newbies.Dan

Hi Dianne,I don't want to sound like a typical male but it's refreshing to actually see a woman on the Avsim forums!I noticed the same thing and it got me thinking so I checked some information on the 'net on the Spits flight characteristics and learned that the Spit is amazingly stable compared with other early fighters, and that although the Griffon's engine is ridiculously powerful it's easy to manage torque and the aircraft has good resistance to it when performing go arounds.Again, I can't thank Rob and the RealAir team enough for injecting new life into FS2004! I stopped flying for a while but since aquiring this bird I just can't stop, it's like a drug!Anyway, enough ranting.Cheers,Jamesedit - grammar

Hi James,"I don't want to sound like a typical male but it's refreshing to actually see a woman on the Avsim forums!"I had been dying to say the same thing but I just about restrained myself. But why? It is indeed great to see a somewhat geekish, male dominated hobby (and I include myself of course) populated by a clearly very nice woman for a change.In fact it is the only post I have seen not by a bloke for many months. And quite out of proportion with even the male/female ratio of real world pilots, which is low enough. However we know that we have quite a few female RealAir customers, but so far they seem quite shy about coming to public sim forums. Maybe Dianne can start a welcome trend.Kind Regards,Rob Young

Umm I also wanted to add that make sure you have autorudder off. I can't say for the spit but I remember when that Corsair came out with the out of hand P-factor issue. People with autorudder off could not at all get the plane off the ground. People with autorudder on could takeoff with no problem.I'm not sure what effect this has on torque in the sim but it apparently changes the p-factor affect by quite a bit. Kevin

Greetings Dianne!"(...) I hope I didn't torque anyone off today (...)"Ouch! Softly, please (wide and wicked grin)! Be well!Jaap Verduijn.