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ap1

Still Have Problem With KOAK

By ap1, in Radar Contact Support Forum

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ap1    16

ap1
Posted

I just finished a flight from KBUR using the VNY1 DP and PXN3 STAR for KOAK.  The flight was all good until the radar vectors started after BUSHY.  RC had me on a heading of 300 which roughly still headed towards SUNOL.  I brought the speed back to 210 from 250 after RC head me decend from 11000.  I kept on the heading of 300 until SUNOL, and the contoller never turned me onto the base entry.  So I requested Visual approach and turned base heading 205 and then intercepted final on a heading of 265.  I am not understanding what is happening.   Thanks.

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ronzie    21

ronzie
Posted

NY1 GMN PXN3/0049

                        M/H FL                   WIND   ATC
TO          NM  AWY     M/C TAS G/S   ZT  ACTME ETA ATA  ACBO ABO REM AREM

 N3413.4/W11829.5       268 CLB                 000000  LAX
VNY 113.10  007 VNY9    268 324 324 00/01 00/01 .../... 0002/... 0082/...

 N3413.3/W11834.4       255 CLB                 000000  LAX
IPIHO       004 VNY9    255 324 324 00/00 00/02 .../... 0003/... 0080/...

 N3418.5/W11836.9       323 CLB                 000000  LAX
TWINE       006 VNY9    323 324 324 00/01 00/03 .../... 0006/... 0078/...

 N3429.7/W11842.4       323 CLB                 000000  LAX
GMN20       012 VNY9    323 324 324 00/02 00/05 .../... 0010/... 0074/...

 N3431.9/W11843.5       323 CLB                 000000  LAX
CASTA       002 VNY9    323 324 324 00/00 00/05 .../... 0011/... 0073/...

 N3448.2/W11851.6       323 CLB                 000000  LAX
GMN 116.10  018 VNY9    323 324 324 00/03 00/08 .../... 0017/... 0067/...

 N3529.0/W11932.7       307 CLB                 000000  LAX
TOC         040 PXN3    307 365 365 00/07 00/16 .../... 0031/... 0053/...

 N3605.9/W12008.6       307 380                 000000  OAK
TOD         047 PXN3    307 447 447 00/06 00/22 .../... 0036/... 0048/...

 N3631.3/W12034.8       305 DSC                 000000  OAK
SRENA       033 PXN3    305 311 311 00/06 00/28 .../... 0038/... 0046/...

 N3642.9/W12046.7       305 DSC                 000000  OAK
PXN 112.60  015 PXN3    305 311 311 00/02 00/31 .../... 0038/... 0046/...

 N3709.0/W12116.7       302 DSC                 000000  OAK
KARNN       035 PXN3    302 311 311 00/06 00/38 .../... 0040/... 0044/...

 N3718.5/W12127.8       302 DSC                 000000  OAK
BORED       013 PXN3    302 311 311 00/02 00/41 .../... 0040/... 0043/...

 N3723.4/W12133.5       302 DSC                 000000  OAK
BUSHY       007 PXN3    302 311 311 00/01 00/42 .../... 0041/... 0043/...

 N3736.3/W12148.6       302 DSC                 000000  OAK
SUNOL       018 PXN3    302 311 311 00/03 00/45 .../... 0042/... 0042/...

 N3743.2/W12213.2       274 DSC                 000000  OAK
KOAK        021 PXN3    274 311 311 00/03 00/49 .../... 0043/... 0041/...

 

This is a navlog from FSBuild. What runway were you assigned?

 

Approach would have started at about BUSHY (BUSHY-SUNOL 18; SUNOL-KOAK 21 FOR 39 Total with the crossing restriction just before or at BUSHY). FSB for a B737 projected altitude of 9000 at BUSHY and 7000 at SUNOL so you were a little higher than projected to make the crossing restriction as required near BUSHY.

 

You were taking vectors, right? Had you reached your assigned altitudes (they happen fast, here) and not had any acks left?

 

If you were going for the 28s RC would adjust for a straight-in (within 20 degrees of arrival path - again too bad I can't post a direct image here). If you were going for the 10s RC would give you a parallel downwind, then base then intercept.

 

I retrieved the plan for a Southwest Airlines flight using flightaware.com.

 

Here is the FSX version:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>

<SimBase.Document Type="AceXML" version="1,0">
    <Descr>AceXML Document</Descr>
    <FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
        <Title>KBUR to KOAK</Title>
        <FPType>IFR</FPType>
        <RouteType>HighAlt</RouteType>
        <CruisingAlt>38000</CruisingAlt>
        <DepartureID>KBUR</DepartureID>
        <DepartureLLA>N34° 12' 02.00" , W118° 21' 31.00",</DepartureLLA>
        <DestinationID>KOAK</DestinationID>
        <DestinationLLA>N37° 43' 16.00" , W122° 13' 14.00",</DestinationLLA>
        <Descr>KBUR, KOAK</Descr>
        <DeparturePosition>15</DeparturePosition>
        <DepartureName>BURBANK/BOB_HOPE</DepartureName>
        <DestinationName>OAKLAND/METROPOLITAN_OAKLAND_I</DestinationName>
        <AppVersion>
            <AppVersionMajor>10</AppVersionMajor>
            <AppVersionBuild>60905</AppVersionBuild>
        </AppVersion>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KBUR">
             <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 12' 02.00",W118° 21' 31.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>KBUR</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="VNY">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 13' 26.00",W118° 29' 30.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>VNY</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="IPIHO">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 13' 23.00",W118° 34' 26.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>IPIHO</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="TWINE">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 18' 34.00",W118° 36' 59.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>TWINE</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="GMN20">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 29' 43.00",W118° 42' 27.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>GMN20</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="CASTA">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 31' 58.00",W118° 43' 35.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>CASTA</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="GMN">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 48' 14.00",W118° 51' 40.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>GMN</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="SRENA">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N36° 31' 23.00",W120° 34' 48.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>SRENA</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="PXN">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N36° 42' 55.00",W120° 46' 43.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>PXN</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KARNN">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N37° 09' 03.00",W121° 16' 45.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>KARNN</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="BORED">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N37° 18' 34.00",W121° 27' 48.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>BORED</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="BUSHY">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N37° 23' 29.00",W121° 33' 32.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>BUSHY</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="SUNOL">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N37° 36' 19.00",W121° 48' 37.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>SUNOL</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KOAK">
             <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N37° 43' 16.00",W122° 13' 14.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>KOAK</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
    </FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
</SimBase.Document>

 or the FS9 version:

 

[flightplan]
title=KBUR to KOAK
description=KBUR, KOAK
type=IFR
routetype=3
cruising_altitude=38000
departure_id=KBUR, N34* 12.02', W118* 21.31',+000778.00
departure_position=15
destination_id=KOAK, N37* 43.16', W122* 13.14',+000009.00
departure_name=BURBANK/BOB_HOPE
destination_name=OAKLAND/METROPOLITAN_OAKLAND_I
waypoint.0=KBUR, A, N34* 12.02', W118* 21.31', +000000.00,
waypoint.1=VNY, V, N34* 13.26', W118* 29.30', +03000.00,
waypoint.2=IPIHO, I, N34* 13.23', W118* 34.26', +05000.00,
waypoint.3=TWINE, I, N34* 18.34', W118* 36.59', +07000.00,
waypoint.4=GMN20, I, N34* 29.43', W118* 42.27', +13000.00,
waypoint.5=CASTA, I, N34* 31.58', W118* 43.35', +14000.00,
waypoint.6=GMN, V, N34* 48.14', W118* 51.40', +21000.00,
waypoint.7=SRENA, I, N36* 31.23', W120* 34.48', +27000.00,
waypoint.8=PXN, V, N36* 42.55', W120* 46.43', +24000.00,
waypoint.9=KARNN, I, N37* 09.03', W121* 16.45', +14000.00,
waypoint.10=BORED, I, N37* 18.34', W121* 27.48', +10000.00,
waypoint.11=BUSHY, I, N37* 23.29', W121* 33.32', +09000.00,
waypoint.12=SUNOL, I, N37* 36.19', W121* 48.37', +07000.00,
waypoint.13=KOAK, A, N37* 43.16', W122* 13.14', +000000.00,
 

Some have experienced difficulties on straight-ins. Try it again and submit a log to jd by turning on the debug mode, loading the plan, Get your departing flight ready in FS, start RC and fly allowing the flight to fail (pass any chance of intercept), alt-tab to bring up the preflight RC window, click the quit button to close RC (and save the log rcv4.log in RC's folder) and then you can shut down RC. You must quit RC before FS is shut down to prevent RC from hanging and having to be aborted via the task manager to save your log. Before zipping up the log rename the file to KBUR-KOAK.log to make it unique so on the next debug it does not get overwritten.

 

e-mail jd@jdtllc.com with the zip file attached and describe the problem in the body. Place a link to this thread in it. Subject no vectors to final intercept.

 

Backtracking, make sure there were no outstanding waypoints in the in-flight RC window status area and you had reached all assigned altitudes.

 

jd will analyze the flight as soon as he can and let you know what happened.

 

Be sure to read the new top pinned topic which includes a trouble-shooting FAQ.

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ap1    16

ap1
Posted

NY1 GMN PXN3/0049

 

                        M/H FL                   WIND   ATC

TO          NM  AWY     M/C TAS G/S   ZT  ACTME ETA ATA  ACBO ABO REM AREM

 

 N3413.4/W11829.5       268 CLB                 000000  LAX

VNY 113.10  007 VNY9    268 324 324 00/01 00/01 .../... 0002/... 0082/...

 

 N3413.3/W11834.4       255 CLB                 000000  LAX

IPIHO       004 VNY9    255 324 324 00/00 00/02 .../... 0003/... 0080/...

 

 N3418.5/W11836.9       323 CLB                 000000  LAX

TWINE       006 VNY9    323 324 324 00/01 00/03 .../... 0006/... 0078/...

 

 N3429.7/W11842.4       323 CLB                 000000  LAX

GMN20       012 VNY9    323 324 324 00/02 00/05 .../... 0010/... 0074/...

 

 N3431.9/W11843.5       323 CLB                 000000  LAX

CASTA       002 VNY9    323 324 324 00/00 00/05 .../... 0011/... 0073/...

 

 N3448.2/W11851.6       323 CLB                 000000  LAX

GMN 116.10  018 VNY9    323 324 324 00/03 00/08 .../... 0017/... 0067/...

 

 N3529.0/W11932.7       307 CLB                 000000  LAX

TOC         040 PXN3    307 365 365 00/07 00/16 .../... 0031/... 0053/...

 

 N3605.9/W12008.6       307 380                 000000  OAK

TOD         047 PXN3    307 447 447 00/06 00/22 .../... 0036/... 0048/...

 

 N3631.3/W12034.8       305 DSC                 000000  OAK

SRENA       033 PXN3    305 311 311 00/06 00/28 .../... 0038/... 0046/...

 

 N3642.9/W12046.7       305 DSC                 000000  OAK

PXN 112.60  015 PXN3    305 311 311 00/02 00/31 .../... 0038/... 0046/...

 

 N3709.0/W12116.7       302 DSC                 000000  OAK

KARNN       035 PXN3    302 311 311 00/06 00/38 .../... 0040/... 0044/...

 

 N3718.5/W12127.8       302 DSC                 000000  OAK

BORED       013 PXN3    302 311 311 00/02 00/41 .../... 0040/... 0043/...

 

 N3723.4/W12133.5       302 DSC                 000000  OAK

BUSHY       007 PXN3    302 311 311 00/01 00/42 .../... 0041/... 0043/...

 

 N3736.3/W12148.6       302 DSC                 000000  OAK

SUNOL       018 PXN3    302 311 311 00/03 00/45 .../... 0042/... 0042/...

 

 N3743.2/W12213.2       274 DSC                 000000  OAK

KOAK        021 PXN3    274 311 311 00/03 00/49 .../... 0043/... 0041/...

 

This is a navlog from FSBuild. What runway were you assigned?

 

Approach would have started at about BUSHY (BUSHY-SUNOL 18; SUNOL-KOAK 21 FOR 39 Total with the crossing restriction just before or at BUSHY). FSB for a B737 projected altitude of 9000 at BUSHY and 7000 at SUNOL so you were a little higher than projected to make the crossing restriction as required near BUSHY.

 

You were taking vectors, right? Had you reached your assigned altitudes (they happen fast, here) and not had any acks left?

 

If you were going for the 28s RC would adjust for a straight-in (within 20 degrees of arrival path - again too bad I can't post a direct image here). If you were going for the 10s RC would give you a parallel downwind, then base then intercept.

 

I retrieved the plan for a Southwest Airlines flight using flightaware.com.

 

Here is the FSX version:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>

 

<SimBase.Document Type="AceXML" version="1,0">

    <Descr>AceXML Document</Descr>

    <FlightPlan.FlightPlan>

        <Title>KBUR to KOAK</Title>

        <FPType>IFR</FPType>

        <RouteType>HighAlt</RouteType>

        <CruisingAlt>38000</CruisingAlt>

        <DepartureID>KBUR</DepartureID>

        <DepartureLLA>N34° 12' 02.00" , W118° 21' 31.00",</DepartureLLA>

        <DestinationID>KOAK</DestinationID>

        <DestinationLLA>N37° 43' 16.00" , W122° 13' 14.00",</DestinationLLA>

        <Descr>KBUR, KOAK</Descr>

        <DeparturePosition>15</DeparturePosition>

        <DepartureName>BURBANK/BOB_HOPE</DepartureName>

        <DestinationName>OAKLAND/METROPOLITAN_OAKLAND_I</DestinationName>

        <AppVersion>

            <AppVersionMajor>10</AppVersionMajor>

            <AppVersionBuild>60905</AppVersionBuild>

        </AppVersion>

        <ATCWaypoint id="KBUR">

             <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 12' 02.00",W118° 21' 31.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>KBUR</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="VNY">

             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 13' 26.00",W118° 29' 30.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>VNY</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="IPIHO">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 13' 23.00",W118° 34' 26.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>IPIHO</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="TWINE">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 18' 34.00",W118° 36' 59.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>TWINE</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="GMN20">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 29' 43.00",W118° 42' 27.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>GMN20</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="CASTA">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 31' 58.00",W118° 43' 35.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>CASTA</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="GMN">

             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N34° 48' 14.00",W118° 51' 40.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>GMN</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="SRENA">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N36° 31' 23.00",W120° 34' 48.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>SRENA</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="PXN">

             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N36° 42' 55.00",W120° 46' 43.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>PXN</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="KARNN">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N37° 09' 03.00",W121° 16' 45.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>KARNN</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="BORED">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N37° 18' 34.00",W121° 27' 48.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>BORED</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="BUSHY">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N37° 23' 29.00",W121° 33' 32.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>BUSHY</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="SUNOL">

             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N37° 36' 19.00",W121° 48' 37.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>SUNOL</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

        <ATCWaypoint id="KOAK">

             <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>

             <WorldPosition>N37° 43' 16.00",W122° 13' 14.00",</WorldPosition>

             <ICAO>

                 <ICAOIdent>KOAK</ICAOIdent>

             </ICAO>

        </ATCWaypoint>

    </FlightPlan.FlightPlan>

</SimBase.Document>

 

 or the FS9 version:

 

[flightplan]

title=KBUR to KOAK

description=KBUR, KOAK

type=IFR

routetype=3

cruising_altitude=38000

departure_id=KBUR, N34* 12.02', W118* 21.31',+000778.00

departure_position=15

destination_id=KOAK, N37* 43.16', W122* 13.14',+000009.00

departure_name=BURBANK/BOB_HOPE

destination_name=OAKLAND/METROPOLITAN_OAKLAND_I

waypoint.0=KBUR, A, N34* 12.02', W118* 21.31', +000000.00,

waypoint.1=VNY, V, N34* 13.26', W118* 29.30', +03000.00,

waypoint.2=IPIHO, I, N34* 13.23', W118* 34.26', +05000.00,

waypoint.3=TWINE, I, N34* 18.34', W118* 36.59', +07000.00,

waypoint.4=GMN20, I, N34* 29.43', W118* 42.27', +13000.00,

waypoint.5=CASTA, I, N34* 31.58', W118* 43.35', +14000.00,

waypoint.6=GMN, V, N34* 48.14', W118* 51.40', +21000.00,

waypoint.7=SRENA, I, N36* 31.23', W120* 34.48', +27000.00,

waypoint.8=PXN, V, N36* 42.55', W120* 46.43', +24000.00,

waypoint.9=KARNN, I, N37* 09.03', W121* 16.45', +14000.00,

waypoint.10=BORED, I, N37* 18.34', W121* 27.48', +10000.00,

waypoint.11=BUSHY, I, N37* 23.29', W121* 33.32', +09000.00,

waypoint.12=SUNOL, I, N37* 36.19', W121* 48.37', +07000.00,

waypoint.13=KOAK, A, N37* 43.16', W122* 13.14', +000000.00,

 

Some have experienced difficulties on straight-ins. Try it again and submit a log to jd by turning on the debug mode, loading the plan, Get your departing flight ready in FS, start RC and fly allowing the flight to fail (pass any chance of intercept), alt-tab to bring up the preflight RC window, click the quit button to close RC (and save the log rcv4.log in RC's folder) and then you can shut down RC. You must quit RC before FS is shut down to prevent RC from hanging and having to be aborted via the task manager to save your log. Before zipping up the log rename the file to KBUR-KOAK.log to make it unique so on the next debug it does not get overwritten.

 

e-mail jd@jdtllc.com with the zip file attached and describe the problem in the body. Place a link to this thread in it. Subject no vectors to final intercept.

 

Backtracking, make sure there were no outstanding waypoints in the in-flight RC window status area and you had reached all assigned altitudes.

 

jd will analyze the flight as soon as he can and let you know what happened.

 

Be sure to read the new top pinned topic which includes a trouble-shooting FAQ.

The runway I got was 29 which is 30 in real life now.  I did pass all the waypoints.  And I flew all the correct alts.  I got 9000 first, then 4000.  But no base vector.  I think that RC just can't for some reason vector properly for these types of approaches.  So, what I'll do instead is just request visual and then vector myself in.  Thanks for the help.

P.S. Yes, I was taking vectors but requested visual when I saw RC didn't give me the intercept vector.

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