US ATP: More than 1 Type Rating Concurrently?

[brucek 38]

In the US, do ATP pilots have more than 1 type rating and fly different type-rated equipment concurrently for airlines? With quick reactions required in complex aircraft, would concurrent multiple type-rated equipment be a liability for an airline? Thanks,Bruce.

[Guest TerryT]

Bruce, The answer would be yes to the multiple type ratings and most likely "No" on flying more than one aircraft. Once you get typed say in a LR35, DC-9, G-3, 727, 747, A320, etc; you are typed. In order to be legal you need to fly and do the appropriate recurring training in order to remain current. Most majors like United, Delta, and American only allow you to fly one model at a time just because of the complexity as you mentioned. Southwest Airlines does fly multiple versions 737 and as far as I know, they must train their crews on the "Differences" between the models (300,400,500,700,900, etc) before they can fly the newer jets. There are other Part 121 companies that allow crews to be current in multiple aircraft at the same time. Most of these companies are much smaller and do not have the staff to fly all of their aircraft at the same time and or fly enough hours. I worked for such a company in dispatch and we had some of our crews flying two aircraft. Our DH-6 (Twin Otter) and BE-200 (Super King Air) crews flew either the G-3 (Gulfstream) and or the LR35 (Lear Jet). Once the crews moved up to the DC-9-15Fs, they flew only one aircraft.Terry

[brucek 38]

Thanks Terry. Some good information there.Bruce.

[Guest Tim757]

Hi Bruce-As far as the "Majors" are concerned it is more the way the union contracts with the air carrier are set up than how the airline has their "C" (company) manual set up.Last contract we could legally and did hold dual currency in two different types of equipment. In my case it was 727 and 757. This made us the crew schedulers best friend. Our new contract stopped that practice.It also presented interesting pay-problems since our ALPA contract stated we are to be paid for the entire month at the rate of the largest (highest) pay rate. I had one event where I flew left seat in the 727 all month then on the last day of the month I got asked to fly a 757 run. Of course I jumped at it, knowing the airline now had to pay me for the entire month's flying at 757 rate."Quick reactions" will kill you much faster than not reacting quick enough. The difference in make between aircraft (of the same manufacturer) really does not enter create much confusion in a situation. And a majority of "problems" are not "THAT" time critical-those that are such as a fire switch are very hard to miss.Also when an airline aquires a "used" plane it may not be configured absolutely the same as the existing models in the fleet. The 727s for example-different original owners specify different thing. As the planes are resold and cobbled-up you get different "things" that are interesting...kinda like getting a rental car, you know the major stuff but the minor stuff might not be where it should be in your mind.Hope this helpsTim757

[brucek 38]

Thanks Tim,So a simmer could "fly" 2 types of equipment and still be in a level of realism :)That's some good info, thanks.Bruce.

[brucek 38]

Hi Tim, if you're still up on this thread:)The B727 and 757 have very different technologies as far as avionics goes (at least as far as I know). I'm currently doing my IR now, and often wonder when I'm determining which hold entry to use, how the execute that entry, and if partial panel then the amount of error to lead/lag the mag compass by (the GPS has failed too); when one gets into a full glass cockpit for several years, do you lose this "steam gauge" methodolgy? I see the B72 as going back to that technology, but doubt if there's a VOR/OBS in most modern glass cockpits at all.Thanks,Bruce.

[Guest Tim757]

Hi Bruce...The two things technology in a modern glass flight deck is "reduce" the workload and make operating the aircraft more efficient.Some will argue that instead of reducing the workload it just transfers it to another skill-set such as "typing". The crew is still in charge and still has to stay ahead of the aircraft in each evolution. The old saying is: "The aircraft should never arrive at a point that the pilot hasn't been 5 minutes earlier."The technology in the '57 is not exactly new compaired to the 777 and the airbus but all three have the same goal as far as presenting the crew with a easy to read, complete picture for situational awareness. In the three-holer (727) it was more mental gymnastics of understanding what was being presented to you.In different evolutions in flying there is a primary instrument and the rest of the indicators providing backup. This is where partial panel comes into play. Again it is just a case of maintaining that situational awareness based on the indications presented you (and diregarding the bad info). I am sorry I don't have the link but look at the accident in Peru and Dominican Republic of 757's that had errors in there static system by the ports being "taped" shut for cleaning. It appears that the crew could not break-out of the mindset of adding up ALL the indications that something was amiss. And when they did then they were behind the mental curve and functionally overloaded.As far as I am concerned, I try to kick off the A/P when it is reasonable to do so, get a feel for the aircraft and make sure the A/P is not "masking" a problem with trim etc. I also fly small general aviation planes that don't have the bells n whistles...what's the sense in flying if you aren't "flying"?Entry into holding patterns are an art camoflaged as a procedure. The best advice I can give you on that is have a plan then modify it for the conditions. Holding patterns rarely "sneak-up" on you in the real world. It is practice and "Flying the Wing" (a great book by Webb explaines this concept).Tim

[brucek 38]

Thanks for the helpful info, Tim. I like that term "mental gymnastics" too! (Must surprise my CFII with that one).I sometimes put my CFII to work to use the checklist for take-off or (more often landing). Recently I quietly substituted a B757-200 checklist in the side-pocket close to his seat (for the actual C172 checklist which I kept on my side); and on downwind called "Landing check-list please". Silence for several seconds :) as he slowly became aware of what I had put there. Smartly swapped for the correct checklist, but the look on his face was priceless for a second!Bruce.