From time to time, especially when I purchase a new aircraft, I've thought it would be nice to have a scenery add on that provides a location to practice basic and advanced flght maneuvers or to "break in" and benchmark a new GA aircraft, learn its preferred speeds, handling, or limitations or get a better feel for that new yoke and rudder pedals, etc.The idea would be a freeware fictional location and airport stuck way out of the way (in the middle of Nevada, say, for those who know that state!) at an elevation very close to Sea Level. The scenery outside the airport for some distance would be no more than a flat grid of roads (aliged precisely on mag N-S, E-W) with a few strategically placed pylons or landmarks for practicing things like ground tracks in wind, patterns at various heights or distances AGL, S-turns across roads, turns on a point, 8s on pylons, chandelles, lazy eights, etc. All the while playing with the wind strength and direction if you wished. The airport would have 2-3 runways with different surfaces, lengths, and widths for visually benchmarking approaches etc. At least one could have an ILS, VASI, PAPI (perhaps you want to practive getting used to the speed of the CDI as it grabs the ILS or determine if that autopilot has a bug?). It would be handy if the runways also had distance marking off to one side for judging TO and landing performance at various temps, and pressure altitudes. At one end of at least one long runway should be a 50 foot semi-transparent wall at the threshold for calibrating V speeds at approach and TO, etc. and practicing approach to flare etc. The runways could have ample high speed exits for getting a feel for your new aircraft's rollout and deccelleration or learning how to use that new reverse thrust. Actual extended runway lines on the ground could help with things like learning slips and timing for turns to final etc. If the mag and true directions were documented you coud even double check your GPS etc. And finally, if object/targets of known distances and heights were scatted around you could use them to decide your favorite zoom setting for this aircraft and learn the aircraft's seat height and viewing angle you prefer at different flight stages. Objects should be brightly colored and distinctive against a bland background, like the animated training DVDs available from pilot stores for real world training. Wish I had the skills to build this and upload it. Probably would be of more use to GA and light sim pilots but someone who buys a new heavy might also want to use the long runway to get used to the handling or to get a feel for things like Accelerate-Go, accellerate-stop distances, Vlof, V1 at various weights, etc. Folks wouldn't use it often of course, just once in a while when they have a new plane or feel like polishing some skill. Just an afternoon musing. Am I crazy? Any takers? Cheers

I downloaded Edwards AFB from here and its great for testing. Miles of runways,some marked out on the desert floor. A HUGE compass rose marked out on the desert and was used by the shuttle. Just in that area there are numerous runways, some with instrument approaches.I also downloaded Area-51 which has a runway long enough to take off,get the gear up,lower them and land again on the same runway flying a 747!

Interesting. Thanks. Anyone like this idea?

I actually was thinking of something similar myself (afternoon musing can be contagious!!)Of course, it might be a turn off for the die-hard fans to have something "fictonal". But if you look at a project like McLelland Field by Peter McLelland, the effort is worth it.I also feel that a community "testing area" would be a great addition. Call it our "virtual hideaway" or what you want. Include different runway lenghts, approaches, hard surface, soft surface, etc. Even a water runway could be included.You know what, it's often with "afternoon musings" that nice projects begin!VFR_Canuckhttp://bryansblog.lumacs.caMy hangar: Flight1 PC-12, MAAM DC3, Carenado 182 RGII, Carenado 206 Stationair, RealAir SF-260, Dreamfleet A36 (with Turbo kit).

Indeed! normally I would pass on something fictional, but this seemed different. Stuck in the desert somewhere it could be ignored unless you needed to use it. Or course you could always disable it in the add on scenery directory until you needed it if you were a purist.

I would be able to help with realising this idea. But how many people would support such an idea?? just feel like knowing to help boost my motivation. haha. i would need some more specs to help push it along. for example, runways lengths and widths. hanger space ( B747/A380 or small cessna) types of buildings. roads would seem kind of tricky since this is going to be in the middle of nowhere. how complicated would you guys like it to be? KLAX/KSFO or simple military style. I'm thinking more of a flight test center kind of airport.

Hey great! I can wink with you on idles. Have been thinking about It. What got me started was a chapter in FAA's Aircraft Flying Handbook.

I think the idea would be bare bones. Not really any need for eye candy, just functional space to test aircraft and practice maneuvers.

I am willing to help also. Not much designing skills I am afraid, but always full of ideas!I also would say more of a military style installation. I can be contacted at [email protected] thing: we'll need first and foremost to pick a good location!VFR_Canuckhttp://bryansblog.lumacs.caMy hangar: Flight1 PC-12, MAAM DC3, Carenado 182 RGII, Carenado 206 Stationair, RealAir SF-260, Dreamfleet A36 (with Turbo kit).

Agreed. A good location is important. As big as possible and out of the way. just like how all test flight facilities are. And another important and very fun part is naming it!! haha. My plan now is probably a very large hanger space. probably fitting 2 A380s. Concrete hanger joined to a admin building. Fuel tanks to simulate X-plane fuel like the X-1's liquid oxygen mix. 2/3 runways. anymore ideas? I would need to know some specs on length and width on runways. No clue on how long it should be. I think something long enough for a V1 abort for a 747/A380 is long enough? if so, how long is that?

hi guys,took some time to just roughly make a concrete hanger. the block next to it is suppose to be an admin building of something of the sort. Think i need to scale down the admin building. The hanger is able to fit 2 A380s. The whole 'airfield' will be rather big. 3 runways of differing materials. here's a shot of it. texturing is not done yet. This is just a fifth of the place. better search for a large empty space. You'll be able to test anything from a cessna to a A380. Anyone has any ideas on how you guys want the admin building to look like? windows?

just in case you are not really sure how huge the A380 is. The building next to the hanger is 100m long. 50m wide and 30m tall. Sorry for the metric values. Its just my part of the world.

Fun guys! Okay my unfinished, unbinding "manifesto" for what the place should be like for others' feedback. And an appeal to the moderator: I hope this thread can stay in the General section a while because it would be fun to get "drive-by" input from the broadest slice of the community.Here's the idea, organized according to the goals for the place (warning long):1. Ground reference manuevers. One goal for the place is to provide an area for pilots to practice ground-referenced maneuvers, especially those appearing on the practical standards test or emphaiszed in RW flight training. These include Circles around a point, S-turns along road, retangular patterns, eights on pylons, eights along a road, turns around a point. The FAA publication Aircraft Flying Handbook has great descriptions/drawings of these. All these require is a flat area of relatively large area, with prominant landmarks (some could be bright orange pylons but to help with orientation from the air of they appeared in various colors so as not to be confused with one another) against a bland lanscape, and a grid of perpendicular roads spaced at pretty liberal distances from one another. No mountains or natural landscape objects to confuse or avoid etc.2. Airport traffic pattern. Nearest the runway, the grid should narrow so that pilots can practice patterns or get the hang of a new aircraft's handling in the pattern, timing for different checklists, visibility out of the aircraft at various points around the pattern, practice at short- vesus long-finals, patterns at different speeds, distances out, or heights AGL, power on versus power off approaches, full flap versus no/partial flap approaches and so on. If the road grid here is spaced at say 1/2 mile distances the pilots can vary things systematically with reference to the ground track and review his/her performance using the replay feature.3. Approach and landing practice. Closely related. First, at least one runway should have an artificial mostly transparent wall 50' high at the threshold of the runway. As I recall, most training manuals recommend crossing the fence at 50' AGL. This wall will help pilots who elect to use it with practice judging final approach speeds and heights, flare, and touchdown etc. This is helpful with a new pilot who want to learn or a seasoned pilot who want to learn a new aircraft. It needs to be mostly transparent because you want the correct visual cues on approach. If the aircraft has a shallower threshold crossing, the pilot can use another runway without the wall.Second, several runways of different widths (150/75 ft) can help pilots practice the visual appearance of approach. Rwys of different widths give the appearance of different diatances out is the widths are not taken into account. FS aircraft also vary in the their default zoom and view out the 2d and 3d cockpit and many pilots adjust these. Pilots could use the grid (known distance out) and view to learn their preferred zoom, seat height, window tilt for a new aircraft.Third, some variety of surfaces (including grass and possibly water) for practice.Fourth, it would be nice if the rwys had regularly spaced markers down the side so flare and rollout distances can be judged. Some payware ac include info on this in the POH but many do not and sometimes it is good to campare how your technique is affecting this. 4. Takeoff practice. The 50' wall is usualful for practicing takeoffs because speeds are often referenced against clearance over a 50' obstacle. With the wall positioned at a long runway with distance reference along the side, short and long field takeoff procedures could be practiced by the novice pilot or the pilot in a novel plane by starting at various known distances from the end of the runway.5. Wind familiarity. By aligning the runways and road grids to magnetic north for the location, pilots can set winds of varying strengths and angles without a lot of mental math since MSFS uses mag direction when setting the wind in the custom dialogue and ATIS reports mag if you are using add ons like AS5. They can learn the effect of winds on ground track during the manuevers they are practicing, or learn how a particualr plane's bank must be adjusted in a manuever to compensate for wind. Crosswind take offs and landing (slips) can be practiced for the novice pilot or the pilot with a novel plane.6. Emergency procedures. The flat area and the measured grids of roads on the ground and along the runway will permit rehearsal of things like checklists for engine failure on take off. Of course these can be done any where, but the pilot can immediately see how they are improving in efficiency over time or how things are affected by decisions at different heights. one challenge I have is determinin gthe best glide speed for some ac with poor documentation. The grids could help with judging that. Conversely the grids could also help with judging poweroff/engineout landings (for those who don't know how complicated these are, check out the FAA publication)7. Aircraft proving. Many of the above assist pilots who are trying out a new plane and want to get familiar with its handling or limitations. Can't decide whether you prefer the RealAir or the Flight1 172, taken each for a spin here and compare. They could also help folks who have tweaked the .air file or who have aircraft with limited documentation and want to know things like Vr Vlof, V1 at various weights, Vref, the ideal TO trim setting. The only additional thing I can think of here is that it would help if the field was near sea level. This would help when folks want to evaluate things at ISO standard. Alternatively it simplifies things like playing with different density altitudes (set the pressure and temp and you're set)to see how performance is affected (Need to know the rate of climb for a new plane?)8. Look and Feel. The place should be a frankly obvious proving ground and test area. The lanscape surrounding the place is measured, gridded by roads, and the objects are bright and unnatural for the most part. The emphasis on traing for new pilots or testing of new planes. No need for eye candy, BUT it would be fun, as suggested if there were hangers and few static aircraft around to look like a tucked away proving ground. The A 380 would be a nice touch. BUT a concern is that the environemnt NOT have a lot of things that affect framerates. we are looking for a robust/sterile proving ground and stutters would reduce that. that is why being away from areas where AI is likely to be is good. No need to reduce or elimitate it.

Thanks. That was rather substantial. But i'm still a little unsure on some parts. Will have to do some reading up myself or will have to get some further clarification from you. I'm laying out the airport first before moving on to the surrounding roads. Also looking around for a place. I think i found a place on google earth. Somewhere in China i think.lat=39.1318665075, lon=83.4491011875haven't checked it out in FS yet. How far out do you think the roads will need to stretch out? Haven't tried doing alot of roads and precision placed, transparent fly through walls are also a first. But sounds interesting enough. Sounds like it will look kind of FSX with the pylons and hoops.

This may prove to be a good starting point:http://perso.orange.fr/moustache/fs/cev.htmHope this helps!