First Flight Trouble with ATC Comms

[clr100 0]

Just bought the trial yesterday and have been reading manual. Set up an easy first 20 min flight today from KFLG to KPRC. So I start engines, put a direct to flight plan into the aircraft NAV.

I tune my Comm 1 radio to 121.9 and contact Ground, "Ground, Baron five sierra xray, request taxi to runway two one". Ground responds with taxi instructions to runway 21. I repeat instruction and taxi, holding short at 21.

I call Ground, "Ground <callsign> holding short runway two one." Ground replies to contact tower on 134.55. I repeat instruction. So far so good. I switch Comm 1 to Tower on 134.55.

I call Tower, "Tower, <callsign>." Tower responds, "<callsign>, this is Tower, go ahead." So I know Tower is hearing me.

I call Tower, "<callsign>, ready for departure runway two one".

THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS TO GO OFF THE RAILS. I hear (not sure from whom but I am still tuned to the tower) "<callsign>, contact Tower on 134.55". Uh, I just contacted you. Not sure what to do, so I repeat call to Tower with just my callsign and they reply again with "<callsign>, this is Tower, go ahead". I repeat "<callsign>, ready for departure runway two one." I again hear the response, "<callsign>, contact Tower on 134.55." So I try going back to ground. I switch to ground frq 121.9 and call "<callsign>, holding short runway two one." They respond telling me to call Tower on 134.55. I switch Comm one back to 134.55. This just goes on and on. They never acknowledge my being ready for departure and clearing me. So I just take off and head for KPRC. When I get in range of KPRC, I tune KPRC Tower frq of 125.3. I call KPRC, "Tower, <callsign>." They respond, "<callsign, this is Tower, go ahead." Then I say, "<callsign>, inbound for landing runway zero three." They respond with, "<callsign>, contract Tower on 134.55." WHAAAT? THAT'S THE KFLG TOWER AND I AM AT KPRC! I'M SO CONFUSED.

I am clearly doing something wrong, either in my phraseology, or in my setup. I did not put any flight plan into P2A, as I just wanted to do a simple VFR to try thngs out. Is it required to have a flight plan? The ground comms seemed to work ok without flight plan. I was careful to check that my phrases were correct in the lower right box. But even if they weren't I wouldn't expect this endless loop to contact the KFLG Tower, even when in KPRC airspace.

Also KFLG has only Ground and Tower frequencies.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong? I am anxious to try this again with hopefully better results.

 

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 875]

There may have been some sort of problem in the program.  To be sure, could you email me the P2A log file to admin@pilot2atc.com .  

P2A Log files are located in: C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Roaming\P2A_200\Logs where <UserName> is your PC user name. 
Portions of the path may be hidden by default, so be sure Windows Explorer has Show Hidden Items checked in the View tab.
A new one is created each time you start Pilot2ATC, and is closed when you shut it down. So if you take the most recent one after you have the error and after you shut down P2A, you should have the correct one.  
 

Your scenario should work, although without a flight plan, there is a little higher risk of the program getting lost.  Try flying it again with a filed VFR flight plan and see if it does any better.  I will review the log file and fly the route to see if there are any bugs in the no flight plan scenario.

Thanks

Dave

[clr100 0]

Thanks Dave. I have restarted P2A since, so I will try and fly it again both with and without a flight plan and will send you the log files if I have the same problems.

Chris

[clr100 0]

Dave,

I tried another flight in reverse from KPRC to KFLG and then back again. At first I had a problem getting a clearance response from KPRC Tower when I used the phrase “Request Departure” but when I changed that to “Ready for Departure” they responded correctly clearing me departure.

I couldn’t seem to get KFLG Tower to respond when approaching their airspace, but that might have been that my phrasing was not correct. I think they responded to just my call sign, saying “go ahead”. But that is the extend that I could get them to respond.

The return flight out of KFLG to KPRC was more troublesome again. The Tower would never clear me for departure no matter how I phrased or even when using SayIt. I also again had the problem when when approaching KPRC and contacting their Tower. I kept getting the directive to contact Tower on 134.5 which is the KFLG Tower. I would continue to hear this no matter what I did. My radio was clearly tuned to KPRC Tower. I did not actually try to contact KFLG to see what would happen.

 These airfields are only 47 miles apart. Is it possible that ATC was getting confused between the airfields because of their close proximity.

I emailed you the log file for this flight as well.

Chris

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 875]

Chris,

Thanks for sending the log file.

On the Ground/Tower loop, I checked using TaxiMnt and the problem is the database does not have the overrun as part of the runway, so if you go to the end of the overrun, Tower thinks you are way far away from the  takeoff position and need taxi instructions from ground.

So to fix that, you can either go to the next to the last intersection, near the numbers and hash marks or you can edit the field in TaxiMnt.  If you're flying X-Plane 11, you can import that airport's taxiways from XP 11 and it gets it right, so no manual editing required.

On the first flight, at KPRC, I can see where 125.3 was dialed into the Com1 Standby Freq, but it was not swapped, so the program thought you were talking to KFLG and assumed you wanted KFLG tower.  Depending on the aircraft you were flying, there may have been a problem with P2A not being allowed to change frequencies in the aircraft...assuming you were trying to change frequencies in P2A.

In the second set of flights, you are correct, Request Departure is not accepted.  It needs to be "Ready for Departure" or "Number One for Departure".

There were issues again with frequency changes.  You started on KPRC Gnd, switched to KPRC Twr and then never had a successful frequency change after that.  What aircraft were you flying?  Were you changing frequencies in P2A or in the Aircraft?

Some 3rd party aircraft don't use the standard implementation of the Com radios and thus can have problems with frequency changes on COM, NAV and the Transponder. 

You might want to fly a default aircraft, if you're not already, and try a different airport than KFLG, since it has the runway/taxiway data issue.

Thanks,

Dave

[clr100 0]

Dave, 

Thanks for checking it out.

QUESTION 1: Regarding the runway overrun issue, how do I import the airport taxiways from x-plane

Thought I was pretty careful with radio frequency changes but certainly could have made a mistake. I am using the x-plane default Baron 58 + REP (reality expansion pack by Simcoders). I don't think they mess with the comms. As I typically do, after departing KFLG, I switched the frequencies to tower and ground for KPRC so I can easily swap when on the ground. So if I wasn't on KPRC Tower (125.3), I would have been on KPRC Ground (121.7). If the logs are showing different, then there may be as you stated some sort of issue between the aircraft comms and P2A comms. I did all my radio switching via the aircraft comms. I did check several times to see if the aircraft and P2A comms matched and they always did, but I might have missed it when they were different. I will attempt to do the same flight using the P2A comms only to see if results are different. I will then attempt the flight with the default Baron 58.

QUESTION 2: What exactly is the effect of the Controller Radius settings under ATC Settings tab in the P2A Config screen? Do they affect the comms range in any way? If not, what is the comms range if any?

I will let you know the results of my test flights.

Chris