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Guest Valkyrie321

Manual startup of planes

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Hi. I'm interested in completely starting up my planes (in FSX) manually (power ups, system checks, engine startups, etc)... However, the manuals/tutorials are a bit sparse, and the checklists seem to leave out some things.Some questions:1) Is there a way to have your plane start completely 'shut off', as opposed to having all engines running and ready to go? I was considering saving a flight where I turned everything off, but even with that, I'm not sure what all the settings should be.2) Is there somewhere I can find more complete 'checklists' (meaning it doesn't just say 'Flaps: Set... Engines: Check... etc', but actually explains what to do, what to look for, etc?. Specifically, I'm interested in the DC-3 and Grumman Goose. I like the old prop planes.3) Alternately, is there some more detailed manual for the Goose and DC-3 that I can refer to for explanation of the systems/dash used in FSX?4) Failing all that, can someone give me a quick tutorial on things like the generator switches, battery switch, the seemingly missing 'suction gauge' (Goose)?I've Googled this stuff until I'm sore, but can't seem to find much info. I really enjoy the whole aspect of the startup checks and powerups.Thanks in advance!

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Excellent, another Goose pilot. One of the easiest ways to accomplish what you are looking for is to simply "save flight" and possibly make it your "default flight" with the checkbox. There are actually a few advantages to this. If you fly from airport to airport, you can save at whichever airport you decide to end that... meaning that the next day you can again start off from where you left off. This means manual shut downs and manual engine starts.Now, as for the intracacies of Goose runups and manual starting, the Goose is actually a pleasant aircraft to start (simple too.)First things first... Generators, Battery switches on. Don't leave them on too long or you WILL drain your battery. I have killed my electronics in the Goose doing that... Ensure Master Avionics switch is in the "O-F-F" position, this will keep battery usage down. You need to get that aircraft started and get a charge going quickly, so that means starting on the right or left engine as per the check list. Leave those generators ON. Make sure you put some sort of light on (the goose only seems to have a rotating beacon that works, so turn it on. This is to ensure people KNOW those engines are coming on.) Once you got both engines up and running, then and only then turn on the master avionics switch. Remember, the time spent between engines on and engines off is time where the battery is being wasted, even with the generators on they won't supply enough power to keep all your systems running for long.This procedure in the dark makes things all that much more complicated as you will NEED to have your instrument light on just to see!The suction gauge is actually in the lower left corner of your panel, near the rest of your avionics gauges. For the most part I just ensure it is "in the green," which it will most likely be. Engine runups are a mixed bag with the Goose, I typically deviate from the RPMs listed. I typically runup at 2500 on land with brakes applied. The suggested runup RPM actually causes the aircraft to move, with brakes on! Magneto checks, 100 drop for both magnetos on each engine.Taking off is also a bit different from what I typically read. I get the aircraft at a good speed before I lock the tailwheel (I land with it locked however). I do this because the down runway propeller torques generally overcome the adjustements I can make with the rudder, especially at the lower speeds. Run em quick with brakes applied then let her go like a race horse or use the tail wheel until you build sufficient speed that the prop torque can be overcome by rudder with wheel locked.Positive climb, gear up.Anyways, if you are a Goose pilot, I wouldn't mind being a co-pilot or captain in a run around Valdez in Alaska. Let me know if multiplayer interests you :DFrom Goose pilot to Goose pilot, don't let that oil can leak!-Cody

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I did some searching around in the internet looking for G-21 checklists. I have had little to no luck. From what I am gathering, the startup procedure for the Goose is a bit by the seat of your pants. Common knowledge will help you denote what procedures need to be taken in order to get the best from your aircraft. For example, if you are sitting on a tarmac, there is no need to check that the gear is down, as you are sitting on it!Normally when I fly the Goose I take into consideration environmental conditions when running through my checklists. If the dewpoint is low compared to temperature (which may also be low) then I start thinking about icing procedures and pitot tube heat. I keep an eye on these instruments in these conditions in my scans, but if the dewpoint is high relative to temperature I don't spend so much time scanning for their conditions.One of the biggest things in the Goose is ensuring proper engine run. I follow the FSX checklist to a T for the Goose when it comes to engine function, ensuring proper RPM and what have you are followed. This not only saves the engine potentially, it is good practice.How much experience do you have with the Goose BTW?

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Hi, Cody.Thanks for the thorough reply! That certainly addresses a few things. I still wish there was a thorough 'manual' of all the systems and proceedures.I've always been a bit confused by how the manual/checklist tells you to start the engines. There seems to be incorrect references or something... Am I correct in thinking this is (part of) how you start up the engines:(Example for left engine)-Left throttle: 1/4-Left mix: Rich-Move ignition switch from OFF to Right-Move ignition switch from Right to Left-Move ignition switch from Left to Both-Move starter switch to left, releasing when engine running-Do the same for right engineI have the feeling this is incorrect (specifically the ignition switch). The checklist also says to have the starter switch on 'both'... which doesn't exist. Maybe they mean start both engines? Again, I dislike how brief the instructions are on the documentation.The Pre-Takeoff has a similar routine, but to check the magnetos. I think THIS is where the switching from Right to Left to Both thing comes in, right?Oh, seeing as you're a Goose fan, why is it that the floats switch seems to be a 3-stage switch? I'd think it would be a 2 stage (up/down).I'm not a 'real' pilot, so please forgive any naive questions...Thanks again for the feedback. Hope you can shed some further light on this subject for me...Cheers!

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Hi, ValkyrieI have been playing FS since the early days (...I had the very first version of it). However, my flying has always been a very generic 'hit the gas, pull up, fly around, and land' type of thing, with relatively no respect for 'reality'. That's not to say I didn't want to. I'm a simmer at heart. I just wasn't aware of things, or had a tough time remembering proceedures/values. Granted, I did manage to land safely very often (on 'real' settings)... yet I'm sure I would have been beaten senseless by the owner of the plane!... as well as air traffic control and other pilots.For example, it was only recently (last year or so) that I (embarassingly) discovered that altitude is properly controlled with THROTTLE, and not pointing the nose up/down! Honest mistake... but definitely a bit tricky to unlearn that in a landing (basically doing the reverse of what you normally did... regarding throttle and pitch). But, I'm definitely getting there.I have FSX now, and am just starting to try and learn it 'for real'.... respecting proceedures, etc. I've been hitting my old flight books from university, as well as studying online, etc. It's been tough, but I'm certainly making progress. FS still seems a bit forgiving. It simulates realistically, but I can get away with all kinds of bad habits!As you can see, I'm now wanting to get into the guts of things, and really know not only all the gauges (I knew the main ones from the beginning, but the more 'obscure' ones were previously always ignored by me), but also the all the values/limits that should be kept using them. As well, I'm really wanting to go through the whole 'checklist and startup' thing... Admittingly, it just feels cool.As for the Goose... FSX is my first experience with it. I don't think I really even knew of it previous to it. I just loaded her up, and immediately thought, "Woa! I like this! It's one of those old type prop planes.... and I love the overhead throttle controls!".I'm really somewhere in between a casual simmer and a hardcore one... with the desires of the hardcore, but (a little better than) the experience/knowledge of a casual simmer.As for real planes... I've only flown a Cessna for a few moments (part of a university course). I was surprised by the 'turbulance' (....I have that in quotes, as the pilot laughed at me when I mentioned it, as it was very light turbulance). Reminded me of water running underneath a metal rowboat...

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Haha, no problems mate. We all have to learn somewhere.For the most part, the ignition sequence is correct.- Set parking brake- Left throttle 1/4 (Set throttle 1/4 forward, an inch or so.)- Left prop control full forward- Left engine mixture full rich (depending on altitude)- Left generator on- Battery switch on- Rotating beacon on- Left magneto from off to both (don't worry about stopping at left or right, just go to both)- Ignition switch for left engine engaged, release when prop turns over.- Repeat sequence for right engine - When both engines are engaged turn master avionics switch on.For the most part, what you described was correct. You want to ensure your engine status is good by checking for oil pressure leaks, and correct RPM, for the most part I just compare it to the right engine so I do the checks with both engines on.The actual ignition switch sequence is correct as far as I know. It is no different then turning a key after all other procedures have been done correctly (IE mixture, battery switch etc.) Once the engine turns over you disengage the ignition much like you would a key, so as to save wear of parts. Now, about magnetos. Each engine has a left and right magneto. For simplistic terms each engine requires two magnetos for safety. When you do an engine runup you ensure that the RPMs produced by the individual magnetos does not drop 100RPM between each other. For instance, if I run 2500 RPM then switch to left, I should see a small decrease on the RPM gauge, but very little. When I switch to the right magneto, it should not be more than a 100 RPM difference. You are checking the consistancy of the magnetos by comparing the RPM between both of them. When you have confirmed that they are within 100 RPM of each other, you turn it back to both then begin the procedure on the other engine. If there is more than a 100 RPM drop between the two magnetos, there is a problem which could potentially lead to engine failure. You would abort your flight on the ground at this time should that occur. The key to doing this procedure is to watch the RPM indication between the tested magnetos, then comparing results.As for the float 3 stage switch, that thing is a bit odd... lol. For the most part I just flip it into the desired position then flip it back to neutral, which is naturally followed by a visual check that they are indeed locked and in position (as well as checking indicator lights). I think a visual check on this is very important.I only have limited hours flying and have not yet recieved my private pilots license, however I am a flying enthusiast and "might" be able to answer any questions you continue to have. I hope what I have provided thus far has proven useful. The Goose (FS version... no idea about real life) is a fickle aircraft and there are some things that no manual will tell you. For instance the tail wheel lock in 3rd person actually reads locked when it is unlocked?At any rate, I think all these little odd things about the aircraft give it character. I hope you find the Goose to have that "vintage" feel of a time when pilots were forced to fly their aircraft.

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Your experience is good, and learning how to remove your bad habits of simming is important once you actually cross the threshold into the cockpit.I might point out that FSX has a decent encyclopedia for information regarding how things work. I would recommend reading the information on weather, magnetos and any other various systems if you can find documentation on it. If you need more assistance and cannot find it on your own, feel free to ask. That is what we are here for!The Goose IMO is a great aircraft to learn, but there are a few intricacies that make it unforgiving in certain circumstances... One being landings and taxiing. Sticking to approach speeds is very important, especially since the aircraft is a tail dragger. One of the reasons I like the Goose is because you practice several different schools of flying at once... Twin engine, amphibious plane, and tail dragger. You will find that over time mastering these skills will make you a better simmer and give you a bit of experience that can apply in the real world. Once you learn these little nuances the aircraft begins to really shine, but as a pilot in this type of aircraft you really have to remain vigilant and follow the checklists. It isn't a matter of remembering them, it is a matter of remembering to read them. A great 2 hour flight can easily be ruined by accidentally applying to much braking while landing which will slam the aircraft too hard on the rear wheel.... perhaps forgetting to put the floats out, or for that matter taking off on water with the gear down and destroying the whole system. As a matter of fact, I have belly landed the Goose succesfully.... LONG story...

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Wow, good stuff! Your startup makes far more sense than FSX's.Ya, I've been reading all the material, but as I pointed out, many times it seems to either skip items, or not go into any detail... or even state something seemingly wrong. One by one, I had to (usually) Google terminology, part names and/or proceedures... (like 'cracking the throttle'). It's rewarding and great when you find it... but frustrating when you have items you can't get info on. You've certainly been a help, though.I've actually been pretty good at landing the goose... especially in water (though the spray I create is a bit concerning!).Actually, the one little quirk with the Goose that I HAVE struggled with is it's painfully dangerous brakes! I don't know how many times I've done a 'handstand' in the goose! Yikes! I don't even bother touching the brakes on touchdown... at least until I am going really slow.I haven't even looked at the heavy planes in FSX yet... I've used them in FS2004, but have yet to check them out in FSX... Just kind of building up to it.

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Hehe, yeah those brakes on the Goose can be a killer! I need a set of rudder pedals and I hope that will alleviate that by allowing me to adjust pressure on the brakes. Typically I just "quick tap" them to get what I am looking for, however some speeds seem more dangerous that others when braking, particularly in the 20-40MPH zone. You gotta be careful because if you handstand too high, there is a good possibility you will slam down hard on that rear wheel and collapse it.The HARDEST thing IMO about the Goose has to do with water taxiing. That can be #### frustrating let me tell you... once you learn what the capability of taxiing in water is, and how to use its amphibious ability along with pushback it will become somewhat easier. There is a really good section in the learning center about water landings and taxiing. I highly recommend reading that section.As for the bigger planes, right with ya. I haven't touched them yet, and I don't plan to until I get more comfortable with GA aircraft and their procedures. From there I go to turbines, then to the Lear, then to the big boys.

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Just wanted to add, if you have a mic and a good internet connection I am MORE than willing to take you up in the Goose on a good hour or so flight from Anchorage to Valdez. Not only do I know the area peronally, but I have sectionals as well as general VFR knowledge of that area. Same applies to the San Juan Islands and Seattle.

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Oops, double post - edited to remove the second one

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Thought you might find this useful - I scanned these from the Original UK Air Council Pilot's Notes for the DC-3 (or Dakota IV as they called it). Of course, not all of this is simulated in FSX, but at least you'll know you're doing it right! Have fun.http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Ala...ury/Dakota1.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Ala...ury/Dakota2.gif

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Ya, I think it was the Goose that I was having SERIOUS trouble taxiing on land with... I'd constantly be doing circles. Seemed like it had 2 speeds... not moving, and moving too fast... and all the while, I'd be spinning around, unable to go straight. Ah, well, I'll just get out of the plane, and throw the keys to a valet parking guy.In FS2004, I was always flying the DC-3... again, that love for the old prop planes.Last night, I suddenly wondered to myself, "Hey, how does the Goose do a parking break type thing?... like when you are testing the engines, but don't want it to move". I guess it has some sort of little rudder type thing that sticks in the water? I haven't tried the 'parking break' on the Goose in water.I just realized, I haven't tried the other 'water' plane. The Beaver? I should try that too. I think I've only looked at half the planes in FSX so far.I'd like to get the old bi-plane from FS2004 in there... as well as some sort of modern jet. I've been collecting various free 3rd party planes/jets for FS2004, but am often turned off by how (seemignly) complicated it gets... You know the usual 'this jet requires THESE other downloads to work...'. Gets really confusing. I'd like to dump them all, and get my hands on the 'newest and best', but it's hard to tell what is 'best'... and even what is newest. Often, I'd install a plane, only to find it's garbage (or has some really lame aspect to it, like a horrible VC, or some element that doesn't work). It wouldn't be too bad if it was easy to install/uninstall them cleanly (...like mods are often these days, using manager programs).

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I'll keep that in mind, Valkyrie! I haven't done the online thing yet...

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The Beaver is another plane I am comfortable with and I LOVE its water handling characteristics. This plane has a VERY notable "step" when taxiing on water. The Beaver in its own right has a few intricacies about how it handles as well. Namely the prop and throttle settings when in cruise mode and conducting run up procedures on water.The DC-3 is a great aircraft, although I don't quite have as much experience with it. I tend to fly it well and perform most if not all of the functions correctly, however my landings leave much to be desired.Like I said, if you are interested in multiplay shared cockpit and have a mic, let me know. Bush flying is my "forte" so to speak. It is what I enjoy doing the most. A little note about online flying... it can be a TON of fun if you got a good system going on between each other or are in an environment where there is a teacher/learner setup. Sharing the controls via Shift+T is a nice feature as it allows pilots in control to shift control to another person... while at the same time if they are not operating the controls they can operate menial functions of the aircraft such as radios, perform navigation and whatnot. I HIGHLY recommend it, as it adds a whole new atmosphere to flying!

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