Approach weirdness

[PeterS72 2]

Hello,

I am currently having a deep look at Pilot2ATC during the trial and so far like it a lot. Respect for providing such a marvelous piece of software. Everything working fine so far with a few minor hiccups, mostly caused by user mistake and speech recognition fails (in short, not your fault).

However, I ran into some approach issue just today when flying from EDCC to EGNX going the ILS 09 approach with the EMW1 transition. Data is latest navigraph cycle 2011. Looking closely at the approach route in the Approches dialog, it makes two turns (ok), then goes 089 to EMW, then does a quick 180 turn back to CI09, another 180 turn to 089 again to FI09. All of that might be doable in a Spitfire, but not a Skyhawk. :.-)

Holding at EMW looks correct, but that EMW waypoint in the route seems wrong to me. Wild guess: "Hold at fix" point is used as a waypoint here.

Steps to reproduce:
- Navigraph 2011 data installed
- Create new IFR flight EGCC to EGNX
- No SID/STARs (disabled in config, flying small GA aircraft)
- Add approach IRS RW09 with EMW1 transition
- Check Route in Approach dialog
- Check flightplan

I am no real world pilot so with a possibility of the above being utter nonsense, please feel free to correct me. But flying this planned approach route is hardly possible. Admittedly not a big deal, I could pick another approach or ignore ATC and tell them "Terribily sorry, my radio suddenly stopped working" after landing. Gladly, I have no pilot license which could be revoked. :)

Also I did not run into any other similar issue yet, so far it's been only this one approach behaving strange. Though I did not look specifically for other hold-at-fix approaches yet.

Besides this, my hat is off to you for this software. Being a software developer myself, I can see how much work went into this project.

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 875]

The approach depicts a holding pattern entry at EMW.  Once cleared for the approach, you would enter the holding pattern and descend to 2000 ft.  Assuming you are cleared, you would intercept the ILS at C109.

If you are not cleared for the approach, you would continue the holding pattern until cleared. After clearance, you would intercept the ILS at C109.

Hopefully that's helps clear things up.

Dave

[PeterS72 2]

Thank you for the explanation. Guess my misunderstandment, apologies for the trouble.

Another one I just noticed:

VFR flight (filed), requested radar vectors to target airport. Got them, all fine. Was told to "Report for runway". When there, I reported field in sight. P2A did not repond anymore after that (tested with radio check, altimeter etc.). Reconnecting to sim resolved it.

Interesting log areas:
I requested radar vectors: ATC Speak:  Lima Seven Two  good morning .  Radar Contact.  Turn Right Heading Two Two Seven  Report  for Runway Two One20:44:52
...
Recognized Speech: Lima Seven Two Field in sight 20:49:12
HandleFieldInSight 20:49:12
Object reference not set to an instance of an object
   ...
   at P2A_2020.Controller.RespondToPilot(SpeechInteraction SI)
   at P2A_2020.ATCListener.HandleRecognizedSpeech(Boolean SpeechEmulated)
   ...

Full log available if required. Issue is reproducable doing the same procedure. As a sidenote, regular visual straight in request without vectors & just "on final" works fine. Also had no problems with vectors to ILS/RNAV. It's only vectors to visual straight in.

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 875]

Were you on Tower frequency at the destination airport?

The correct terminology for initial contact with tower on a VFR flight is:

"<CallSign> inbound at 5000 feet for landing" or several other variations of this.

If you want vectors for a visual straight-in, then it would be:

"<CallSign> inbound at 5000 feet, request radar vectors for visual straight-in to runway 2 4" or whatever the actual runway is.

Dave

[PeterS72 2]

I asked center for radar vectors for visual approach (FRANK Ctr CtlrType: Center)

Center vectored me in, all fine. Then handed me over to Tower (EDFR Info_Twr CtlrType: Info_Twr)

Contacted tower, all good. No more vectors received, but not expected because the runway was straight ahead.
Tower said "Report  for Runway Two One". Was still alive, I could ask for altimeter and winds.

Now what causes the issue is "Field in sight" to Tower. I think I got the "Bing" confirmation after that, log has exception (see previous post) and then no recation anymore from Speech nor SayIt. Not even a "Bing" confirmation, dead. P2A itself kept running, no application freeze. Reconnected to sim, all fine again.

Anyways, the origin of the problem is most certainly myself saying some wrong phrase. That itself is fine, I am learning. 🙂 But I came up with this report because of the exception and the "no reaction anymore from ATC" after it.

I found the VFR phrases PDF in the sticky posts, should stick to that for learning I suppose.

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 875]

Thanks for the additional details.

What is the "Bing" confirmation you mention?

Yes, sticking with the Phrase in the document or in SayIt windows will avoid some problems.

I think in the case of your flight, an error may have caused the problem of silence.  Since it was a first contact with tower, and you were on final, saying "<CallSign> on final for runway xx" might have received the "Cleared to land" response.

I'll check the response to "Field in Sight" and see if I can find the cause of the error.

Dave

[PeterS72 2]

"Bing confirmation" == Speech Recognized Tone from Config / Speech

That's where I noticed something was wrong, as that Recognized Tone no longer occured, even on simple stuff like "Say altimeter".

Anways, I know how to reproduce the issue, if required. I will try again with the proper VFR phrases tomorrow and see how that works. I'm glad to see VFR is also supported. Occasionally some VFR flight is a nice change of pace. 🙂

Btw, using X-Plane 11. But probably not really relevant in this case.