Howdy Gents, Not bashing just sharing intel on my long awaiting FSX recon report here. Upgrade Path A: Free for all existing FS2004 RealAir Customers* RealAir aircraft will function broadly as they did in FS2004.* Gauges, exteriors, liveries and sounds will function as they did in FS2004.* Backlit gauges will be absent as our smooth gauges in FSX require a radical design change to enable this.* Aircraft will not spin and side-slip as they did in FS2004 but for normal flying they are perfectly serviceable.* Bear Gulch Scenery for the Citabria/Scout package and West Malling scenery for the Spitfire package will function with some minor changes.* Nav lighting will be basic due to FSX's different techniques in this regard.NOTE: The spin and side slip have not been removed deliberately! FSX just handles these functions differently. Not to bash but to point out a level of realism. These 3rd party aircraft from Real-Air are great add on aircraft with the best flight characteristics I have ran into for any GA crafts for FS2004. But part of flying and the characteristics of flying are if you get into and un-cordinated stall well you can get into a spin. And if you do not keep a cool head and panic can end up dead real fast. I have personal experience with a spin with my uncle in flight when I was younger In a C-172 fixed gear will never forget some scarry sh**. Also side=slipping is a very neat characteristic. FSX Is supposed to be stepping forward not backward. Really makes me wonder. Eye candy is nice but jeeze louise people I have actually seen the FSX Deluxe for sale on http://www.sportys.com/acb/index.cfm?&DID=19&WebPage_ID=69. If that is the case and people are actually buying this stuff to help as a training aid. And most would most likely be entering the world of flight for their private. We obviously need to work on weather awarness such as you will think twice before flying your C-172 through a level 5 or 6 storm or become aerobatically trained real fast, icing and flight characteristics etc... So far this FSX has not been looking to peachy for me. I almost ran out there to get it a.s.a.p. I am very very glad I held short before running out on the Rwy and getting plowed from a B-737. No bashing just observing. It needs to move forward for me before I am gonna move forward period. Happy Landings, Josh

FSX Is supposed to be stepping forward not backward. Really makes me wonder. Does not make me wonder. Although I have not looked into RealAir's upgrade intentions, I assume they are providing previous users a way to use the plane in the FSX platform without completely re writing the plane's whole code. To suggest that FSX does not provide developers the ability to program "spinning" is to base it upon RealAir's attempt at making their plane backward compatible for us. I really don't believe that is a correct assumption unless you have some statement from Aces to back it up. And really, if such were the case - it would really make us wonder. Not being a prophet, perhaps RealAir will offer a completely newer version at cost - and perhaps at a discount for previous owners. My guess is the upgrade will be free and any new developed plane will be at full cost - which is not bad either knowing the developing costs involved.Best,Randy J. Smith<<>>

Also, please note the addendum as you quote, from RealAir which states that FSX handles spin/side-slipping differently. You go on to critique FSX and claim it is taking a step back with regards this issue...it isn't an issue! FSX will allow those things, it's just that the way that FS9, and RealAir accordingly implemented the effects, is now handled in a different manner; what worked in FS9 won't work in FSX....purchase the FSX versions when available and i think you'll find that those functions are back in place; as RealAir go to great lengths to point out, some of the things need extensive re-coding to fit the FSX framework.

The modelling of a dynamic air mass is far better in FSX than it was in FS9, but what we don't know is how the developers of FS9 products that slipped and spun achieved that - perhaps by forcing areas of the flight model into areas it wasn't intended to go?With the new FSX model, those `tricks` no longer work, or don't work as they did before. It's not a reflection on the FSX engine, and indeed I don't read the Real Air statement like that at all, I read it as a practical justification why you can have a free update with fewer functions, or a paid-for update with them all. Seems entirely reaonable to me!Allcott

>The modelling of a dynamic air mass is far better in FSX than>it was in FS9, but what we don't know is how the developers of>FS9 products that slipped and spun achieved that - perhaps by>forcing areas of the flight model into areas it wasn't>intended to go?>RealAir had to spend some time re-writing it's code at the release of FS9, as Microsoft made changes from FS2002 at about the last minute.As far as I'm concerned about flight models, they're all just electronic simulations to start with, and I don't care how much MSFS or even X-Plane is tweaked, sliced, and adjusted, and re-worked to provide the most proper results possible.L.Adamson

That's right, the same thing happened when FS2004 was released. Rob's spinning flight models require a delicate balance between widely different air file parameters, so that tends to mean new releases of FS spoil the spin. The good news is that after much work Rob has been able to get spinning and side-slipping to work in FSX, even better than was possible in FS2004!Also, for those who haven't visited our site, there is an "Upgrade Path B"... This upgrade restores all of the features lost in the change from FS2004 to FSX, but also adds a whole lot of new features not possible in FS2004. We hope to have the "Upgrade B" SF260 ready for release sometime in the next few days. We will be charging for it though as it was a huge amount of work. There's more info regarding this on our site.

> The good news>is that after much work Rob has been able to get spinning and>side-slipping to work in FSX, even better than was possible in>FS2004!>Oh goodie! :-jumpy We'll have to spread the word on the FS9 forum, that some of the best flight dynamics available in flightsim land, are even going to be better in FSX! :-hah L.Adamson

This will be greatly appreciated.

Rgr That! Now I am starting to see some light out of this!!! It is taking awhile and please forgive me when I seem to be a criticize a notch or two. I am praying for Icing modeled and PILOT'S Must pay way better attention to Weather I.E. Level 5 or 6 storms to prevent from some aerobatics training in a C-172. Instead of hey a storm wow I need a change let's blaze straight through the heart of this storm to make a bit of a bumpy ride. (HUH).. Real Deal May be the last bumpy ride and if you ride through it. Would be the last bumpy ride you would want to make (LOL). I will end up purchasing FSX but still a little reluctant till I see what the 3rd party add-on business starts putting out. Because really all the 3rd party add-on's and some of what them developers were able to do in FS2004 for realism is what made my sim period. Happy Landings, Josh