Hello-

A few sim update's ago MSFS introduced a native steering tiller. I'm struggling to get it to work with Axis + Ohs. From within AAO I've tried setting it to the standard tiller function, and also the steering set function, without results. I've looked through the AXIS_ options and I don't see one for the steering tiller .What is the best binding to get this to work as if I had the tiller assigned within FS?

57 minutes ago, CIKSSFMO said:

Hello-

A few sim update's ago MSFS introduced a native steering tiller. I'm struggling to get it to work with Axis + Ohs. From within AAO I've tried setting it to the standard tiller function, and also the steering set function, without results. I've looked through the AXIS_ options and I don't see one for the steering tiller .What is the best binding to get this to work as if I had the tiller assigned within FS?

Isn't this different for each aircraft? What plane are you trying to do this with?

The standard event in MSFS is STEERING_SET, hidden in "Aircraft Misc. Events/Nose Wheel Steering"

Aircraft Misc. Events (flightsimulator.com)

The other events are the "fake" AAO tiller, see manual.

It should be different for each aircraft in terms of settings of enabling rudder control or not. But by and large most of the addons I have (Fenix A320, PMDG 737, AS CRJ, JF 146) support the in-game tiller axis.

I'm trying to get the 146 working first. Set the STEERING_SET function to a free axis, unticked the "rudder steering axis" option in the aircraft settings, which as far as I know means the pedals are the rudder and the tiller axis is the tiller. With that setup and my hardware, the rudder pedals work and nothing happens when I move the tiller.

5 hours ago, CIKSSFMO said:

It should be different for each aircraft in terms of settings of enabling rudder control or not. But by and large most of the addons I have (Fenix A320, PMDG 737, AS CRJ, JF 146) support the in-game tiller axis.

That is not what I meant. The issue of "difference" is this: what AAO is allowed to do over SimConnect and what you can assign in the controller assignment of MSFS are two separate things. It is entirely possible that the tiller axis in the MSFS controller assignment works, but SET_STEERING does nothing. They are in fact not related at all. It is up to the aircraft developer apparently if he supports these external events or not. This is the case for a lot of items from the MSFS controller assignment, they cannot be translated to/compared with AAO. It would be really nice if Asobo would always synchronize this, and you could find everything from the controller logic in SimConnect too, but they don't and you can't.

That is why in this special case AAO has a "fake" tiller feature. "Tiller" in the axis variables section and "AXIS_TILLER_SET" from the Events list don't exist in the "real world", that is AAO mapping a second controller onto the rudder axis. You can turn the AAO tiller on and off with special AAO_ events, and it will disengage automatically when your speed is greater that 30 knots. And if the rudder control itself is exotic (BVar or LVar) you can still do it, by assigning the two controllers manually to that rudder control and use a Combo button to switch between them (AAO doesn't care if you assign multiple physical controls to the same thing).

I'm checking my configurations right now, and I was using AXIS_TILLER_SET with the 146. Unfortunately I can't confirm that it works, because I'm one of those people where MSFS is just unstable. I cannot get it to start at the moment, but should that happen, I will double check the 146

Edited October 29, 20223 yr by Lorby_SI

OK, I got MSFS working (first the error with the graphics card, then memory exception, then I made it to the airport...)

For the 146 I am using "AXIS_TILLER_SET" and "AXIS_RUDDER_SET" assignments with "AAO_TILLER_TOGGLE" assigned to a button. I made no changes whatsoever in JustFlights aircraft configuration tool.  
Both these events move the rudder axis, so in the cockpit, pedals and the triagular "tiller wheel" always move at the same time. But externally I have the rudder on my pedals and the tiller on an old joystick that is mounted to one side.

If you don't assign the TOGGLE, then the tiller controller will actuate the rudder when you are on the ground and going at less than 30 knots. In the air or faster than 30 knots it will switch to your pedals. 

 

Edited October 29, 20223 yr by Lorby_SI

I found an older thread about the same thing. Apparently STEERING_SET might actually work, but it may not trigger the animation of the tiller animation in the cockpit. Meaning, you can steer with it, but the tiller wheel in the cockpit doesn't move. So there is always a compromise as far as the animations in the cockpit go - but as long as my physical controls do what they are supposed to do, I personally don't mind the visuals.

Looking to map MSFS Nose Wheel Steering - AxisAndOhs Support - The AVSIM Community

Edited October 29, 20223 yr by Lorby_SI

A few more considerations:

the animations in the cockpit (yoke, pedals, rudder, levers, buttons) don't have to be linked to the "action". That is not a "law of nature" if you want to call it that. They move in sync with the aileron, elevator, rudder etc. because the developer created an animation that is linked to a variable. But you could steer the aircraft without any actual animation just fine. 

Conclusion: if you want to know if an axis or button works, you have to really try it out (for example by taxiing around while trying the various tiller options). You can never know if the "thing" is actually not working or if it is just not actuating the animation. 

This goes the other way too. Normally, when you see the item moving in the cockpit, there is a good chance that your control is working too. But there are exceptions, especially with the LVars. An LVar is often used to control (only) the animation, so there are situations where you can press a button visually by altering an LVar, but the actual aircraft system is not affected, because you only triggered the anmiation, but not the functionality of the button.

Thank you for the excellent support, I will give it a try!

On 10/29/2022 at 4:07 AM, Lorby_SI said:

A few more considerations:

the animations in the cockpit (yoke, pedals, rudder, levers, buttons) don't have to be linked to the "action". That is not a "law of nature" if you want to call it that. They move in sync with the aileron, elevator, rudder etc. because the developer created an animation that is linked to a variable. But you could steer the aircraft without any actual animation just fine. 

Conclusion: if you want to know if an axis or button works, you have to really try it out (for example by taxiing around while trying the various tiller options). You can never know if the "thing" is actually not working or if it is just not actuating the animation. 

This goes the other way too. Normally, when you see the item moving in the cockpit, there is a good chance that your control is working too. But there are exceptions, especially with the LVars. An LVar is often used to control (only) the animation, so there are situations where you can press a button visually by altering an LVar, but the actual aircraft system is not affected, because you only triggered the anmiation, but not the functionality of the button.

After some attempts, I can usually get the AAO tiller workaround to work. However, I'm still puzzled- in the MSFS controls section, you can there's an assignment for "Nose Wheel Steering Axis". When I bind this within MSFS, all the tillers in the various third party aircraft work flawlessly. I can't seem to find it's equivalent in AAO. I've tried "AXIS STEERING SET", but the tiller doesn't move with that when it works perfectly with the native MSFS assignment. Which assignment in AAO should I be using to replicate this MSFS control?

Thanks

1 hour ago, CIKSSFMO said:

Which assignment in AAO should I be using to replicate this MSFS control?

As I wrote above - there doesn't have to be an equivalent. What AAO is allowed to do over the SimConnect API and the MSFS controller assignment logic have nothing whatsoever in common. They are two completely separate mechanisms. You cannot compare them.

If and how the SimConnect events work is out of AAOs control. It would be great if Asobo made it so that there was an equivalent in SimConnect for every control in the MSFS assignment section, but obviously that is not the case. Event those that are named similarly often don't even work the same way.

See for yourself - these are the events that can be used by an external app and what Asobo says about what they do:

Event IDs (flightsimulator.com)

In particular, this section here is relevant for you. Which one of the events does what and how to make best use of it for a particular plane is Asobo's and the aircraft developers secret. This spec is all we have.
 

Quote

Nose Wheel Steering

Event Name	Parameters	Description	Multiplayer
AXIS_STEERING_SET	[0]: Steering position (+/-16384)	Sets the value of the nose wheel steering position. Zero is straight ahead (-16384, far left +16384, far right).	Shared Cockpit
NOSE_WHEEL_STEERING_LIMIT_SET	[0]: Steering position (+/-16383)	Set the steering angle limit for the nose wheel. -180° maps to -16383 and 180° maps to 16383.	Shared Cockpit
STEERING_INC	N/A	Increments the nose wheel steering position by 5 percent.	Shared Cockpit
STEERING_DEC	N/A	Decrements the nose wheel steering position by 5 percent.	Shared Cockpit
STEERING_SET	[0]: Steering position (+/-16383)	Sets the value of the nose wheel steering position. Zero is straight ahead (-16383, far left +16383, far right).	Shared Cockpit

 

Edited December 11, 20223 yr by Lorby_SI

1 hour ago, CIKSSFMO said:

but the tiller doesn't move

Forget the tiller in the cockpit - try to taxi and steer. As I also wrote above, it is entirely possible that you can steer the aircraft even if that tiller wheel is not moving. In fact, not even the nose gear itself has to turn visually. All those are just animations.

5 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

Forget the tiller in the cockpit - try to taxi and steer. As I also wrote above, it is entirely possible that you can steer the aircraft even if that tiller wheel is not moving. In fact, not even the nose gear itself has to turn visually. All those are just animations.

Thank you. Is there a way to assign a button in AAO to block native MSFS input? Ideally what I'd like to do is assign my rudder pedals to the tiller with the Nose Wheel Steering command within MSFS so the animation/native support works, and then have a toggle button to ignore it and use my rudder pedal assignment from AAO for the actual pedals. I know how to set the modifier to toggle/suppress different axes within AAO, but I assume as you said because the controller assignment and the simconnect input are seperate this is not possible?

Thanks for the help.

22 minutes ago, CIKSSFMO said:

Is there a way to assign a button in AAO to block native MSFS input?

No, this is not possible. As I said, these are completely separate mechanisms. One cannot control or override the other. You would have to find a solution in MSFS itself.

But. It is not like the separate Tiller in AAO does not work - at least, it always worked fine for me. Why are you going to all this trouble? What is the actual problem? Also, make sure to always try all likely events, not just the plausible one. AXIS_STEERING_SET and STEERING_SET are separate events. And the STEERING_SET was the one that was working for me in the example at the beginning of this thread, the AXIS_ did nothing.

Edited December 11, 20223 yr by Lorby_SI

3 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

No, this is not possible. As I said, these are completely separate mechanisms. One cannot control or override the other. You would have to find a solution in MSFS itself.

But. It is not like the separate Tiller in AAO does not work - at least, it always worked fine for me. Why are you going to all this trouble? What is the actual problem? Also, make sure to always try all likely events, not just the plausible one. AXIS_STEERING_SET and STEERING_SET are separate events. And the STEERING_SET was the one that was working for me in the example at the beginning of this thread, the AXIS_ did nothing.

Mainly because the AXIS_STEERING vs STEERING_SET has been hit or miss, needs troubleshooting with a new aircraft, whereas the native MSFS assignment just works from the start and includes all the animations.I agree the AAO method works, but when it's set in MSFS it's just a nicer experience overall. I don't have a separate tiller hardware or twist-grip stick, but I might try experimenting with setting the tiller steer in MSFS to a game controller I don't use much that I can steer with on the ground and then have AAO handle the rest of my controls/assignments like it's doing now.

9 minutes ago, CIKSSFMO said:

Mainly because the AXIS_STEERING vs STEERING_SET has been hit or miss

That is why you can choose either one for each aircraft separately. And be mindful that they might steer the plane, but not turn the tiller wheel in the cockpit. Just don't look at that thing. I am using an old joystick as tiller. It is mounted on reversed table leg and bolted to the floor, so I can use it either as tiller, or Airbus joystick, or put it right in front of me when flying a stick plane.

It shouldn't be this way, but apparently Asobo bolted another separate controller logic to the sim. It would be nice if the SimConnect events and that logic did the same thing. But they don't, and nobody seems to really care about it. Except for the users who want to control this externally and have to jump through hoops.

Edited December 11, 20223 yr by Lorby_SI