FSX vs FS2004 wilderness scenery

[Guest tripecac]

Two questions:1) How do you inline pictures on this forum? Mine just appear as attachments (to me at least).2) Does my airspeed indicator look normal to you? What's the white block with "12" in it right below the temperature? Seems weird!Thanks!

[Guest tripecac]

Here are the images:FSX (vanilla):http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187141.jpgreal:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187142.jpg

[oqvist 11]

Not sure it

[Guest tripecac]

Here is the same scene in FS2004 (with Holger's "US WA North Cascades" installed):http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187198.jpgHere is FS2004 again, if I uncheck Holger's scenery:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187199.jpgNote that the fields are gone now. (I'm guessing the blocky coasts are due to missing files.)So, does this mean FS2004 and FSX lack accurate landclass data (e.g., fields) in "small" areas like this? Are GEX, UTX, FSGenesis, and other "big scale" commercial packages similarly inaccurate?Do I need to rely on "local" authors (like Holger) for accurate scenery?(I'm a bit bummed, since this test suggests that FSX is a downgrade in accuracy from what I had before).

[Guest RonB49]

>(I'm a bit bummed, since this test suggests that FSX is a downgrade >in accuracy from what I had before).Oh, I don't think that at all. This one small area may be worse but large areas where I'm familiar with land usage have dramatically improved over the last few versions of flight sim.Someone on these forums observed recently that we should all fly in areas that we are not too familiar with. The nearer you get to where you live, the more you'll notice the inaccuracies.R-

[Guest tripecac]

Yeah, I understand that idea.Unfortunately, the main appeal of Flight Simulator to me is flying through areas I already know. Google Earth has the same appeal. Too bad we can't get FSX to load scenery data from Google Earth! :)Anyway, I hope Holger releases FSX versions of his Northwest scenery. They made a huge difference in accuracy for FS2004, at least to my eyes.That's landclass at work, right?I am curious to see the FSgenesis screen shots of the scene I posted.Are there any other packages out there that will help improve landclass accuracy in this area? (I've already searched the file forums for FSX scenery around here but there doesn't seem to be any)

[Taildragger 2]

Landclass is definitely your problem here.The first image is with default landclass and UTX disabled. Pretty much the same as yours, except that I also have GEXn and that is difficult to disable.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187209.jpgSecond is with FSGenesis landclass and still no UTX. The forests seem to have been properly remapped as fields.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187210.jpgFinally, FSGenesis with UTX enabled. Not much change, just a few more roads and streams. In other areas you will find UTX makes a huge difference.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187211.jpgJohn

[Guest tripecac]

Awesome! Thanks a ton for posting those grabs!FSGenesis looks like it does for FSX what Holger's scenery did for FS2004. It's adding field terrain in the right areas, and that's the stuff I notice most. Very cool!GEX seems very subtle; I can't tell the difference between your shot with GEX and mine without. UTX is also subtle, but I do see those extras streams and roads. Questions:1) Did you notice if FSGenesis, GEX, and/or UTX dropped your frame rates?2) Which FSGenesis DVD(s) did you install and enable? I see there's "US Landclass", "North America Terrain Mesh", and "World Mesh".3) Did you try other free or cheap alternatives to FSGenesis before settling on it? Did any come close to the coverage and accuracy?Thanks again!

[Guest tripecac]

A couple more questions:4) How much autogen did you have enabled? Have you installed any autogen tweaks (like the reduced trees, etc.)?5) Do you usually fly w/ FSGeneis, GEX, and UTX all enabled? Or do you sometimes disable them either for performance or cosmetic reasons?Thanks!Travis

[Taildragger 2]

Travis -The GEX changes are more subtle than UTX -- most noticable in Fall and Winter, also in desert areas. You may have noticed the Sahara-like sandy appearance in the default FSX, even in areas with sparse vegetation. Steep terrain is also greatly enhanced -- cliffs appear more convincingly rocky and sculptured with GEX.Time permitting, I may try some before and after GEX shots, but changing is a tedious process of switching out thousands of texture files.UTX enhancements are like night and day. Both urban and remote areas benefit greatly, especially in VFR flying. Being able to recognize every road, stream, lake, etc. is great fun. I just finished flying the Wind River range in Wyoming, and could spot nearly every feature on the National Forest map.Questions:<1) Did you notice if FSGenesis, GEX, and/or UTX dropped your frame rates?">FSG and GEX had no detectable effect, and I carefully benchmark major addon changes. UTX initially impacts frame rates because of the greater density of roads and the fact that it enables traffic on more roads -- not just interstates. But pull the traffic slider down to 10% or less and you will be back to normal and still have plenty of traffic.<2) Which FSGenesis DVD(s) did you install and enable? I see there's "US Landclass", "North America Terrain Mesh", and "World Mesh".">US Landclass is what you want. The mesh files improve the terrain detail in mountains, canyons, etc. I use those as well, but the benefit is less obvious than with landclass and UTX.<3) Did you try other free or cheap alternatives to FSGenesis before settling on it? Did any come close to the coverage and accuracy?>I'm not aware of any freeware that covers the entire US. I chose FSGenesis based on prior experience with Justin's great product support and some comparison screen shots of landclass packages in an earlier posting. Sorry I did not save the link. May even have been another forum.<4) How much autogen did you have enabled? Have you installed any autogen tweaks (like the reduced trees, etc.)?>I keep the slider full right (Extremely Dense) in the boonies and sometimes back off to Very Dense in cities. No tweaks -- I like lots of trees at low altitude. If you have trouble, reduce the buildings first.<5) Do you usually fly w/ FSGeneis, GEX, and UTX all enabled? Or do you sometimes disable them either for performance or cosmetic reasons?>Always enabled, along with the FSGenesis mesh, which seems to affect loading time, but not frame rate.Good luck!JohnP.S. If you also want to add realistic AI traffic, I have been very pleased with the freeware World of AI packages.

[Guest tripecac]

John, thanks for all the info!Don't worry about the GEX-vs-vanilla screen grabs, since it sounds like a pain... I can look for comparisons online.It sounds like you have a tough computer, to have autogen set to max! I've got it set to Sparse, and traffic to less than 10% already... and still I'm wishing for more speed.I noticed that Holger's freeware Victoria+ dramatically slows down frame rates in the Victoria area, even with autogen off. I'm guess it's the non-autogen scenery that bogs things down. Hmmm... Are cities always performance killers?Anyway, thanks again for the info and the grabs. I need to think carefully about what to do/buy next. My system seems borderline, so UTX scares me a little. FSGenesis looks like good bang-for-the-buck, especially if I only get the landclass.For the FSGenesis mesh, did you get the download or CDs? The web site says that the download version is compressed more than the CDs and has "a slight decrease in visual fidelity".

[Taildragger 2]

My system is similar to yours, Travis:Core2 Duo 2.4MHz -- overclocked to 3.4 and 1500 MHz FSB2 GB 800MHz RAM8800GTS - 768MBYou have lots of room for overclocking, if you need a bit more oomph.UTX has all sorts of customizing options to help frame rate issues. Yes, cities are killers, especially with heavy AI traffic nearby. If you primarily fly in the wilderness, your performance will not be a problem.But I agree with you that landclass is your best "bang for the buck" at this point.I ordered the mesh CDs -- the downloads are humongous, plus having the resolution loss.John

[Guest tripecac]

John -I notice your video card has 3x as much RAM as mine (256MB). I wonder how much of a difference that makes. I'm a little scared about overclocking. I use this PC for work to, so don't want to put it at risk. I'm using the default CPU cooler, too.Did you:a) buy v1 cds, and are downloading v2 updates:( buy v1 cds, preordered v2 cdsc) download v1, preordered v2 cds(it's not clear whether #c is an option)Too bad the landclass only covers the US! I'd love to have Canada too.Travis

[Guest tripecac]

I went ahead and bought:1) FSGenesis2) GEX3) UTXI installed GEX and UTX, and am still waiting for the FSGenesis files to continue downloading.Right away, I found a bug in UTX. A railroad bridge is in the wrong place. This is only a couple miles away from the last screen shot, and is right near my house, so I know personally that UTX has the bridge it in the wrong spot.I've posted about the problem on the flight1 forum, and also submitted a bug report with the ERSX tool. No workarounds yet. :(Here's my post, which has screen grabs: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=25876(I didn't want to duplicate it here in case that aggravates people)Do you know of any way to either:a) manually fix the bridge location:( have that one bridge default to the FSX version rather than UTXc) disable all UTX railroad data

[Taildragger 2]

Travis,I have had no trouble with overclocking, but do use a Zalman CPU cooler, and temps stay reasonable.:( Purchased v1 mesh CDs, preordered v2.If you have already submitted the bridge problem in the Flight1 reporting tool, just wait. It may take a few months until the next patch, but they are very good about responding to glitches. And with those I have reported, the result is far better than I could ever do.John