Sign in to follow this  
Guest Fabio Miguez

XML or C

Recommended Posts

Hi,I'm new to panel design, and I simply wonder which one of either XML or the old .GAU to use? As far as I understand, C is capable of much more than the XML-gauges, but does any one know for how long FS will use the old .GAU-files, or is XML the "way of the future"?Best regards,Jimmy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hey Jimmy.Interesting question. I am affraid possibly not even MS knows the answer, although they might.XML is a lot easier to learn, but you are right, it cannot be matched to C, or C++, which offer greater programming capabilities.C and C++ also offer vector gauge programming, important if you are doing an EFIS, although I hear XML might be rolling up its sleeves and getting ready to draw vectors.I program in C++, and I would not drop it. I think the capabilities of using objects are just too good to switch to XML.As far as MS supporting GAU files, well, FS9 (FS2004) does, so that gives us at least another 2 years. And I highly doubt they would drop it in FS10 (FS2006).And don't forget GAU files are a lot harder to read than an unprotected format like XML. ANyone has access to the code you write, so for commercial developers, XML is usually not an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Fabio said the most things.Let's say it this way: If you can work with the C language, and you can handle Microsoft Visual Studio C++, you should try C gauges. A thing which is not so good about C gauges: Even for the easiest gauge, you may need some time, because you need different files(a master .c file, the subgauge(s) .c file(s), the .rc file). This takes some time.In C, you are able to program everything! You just need much time and much knowledge for things like an FMC or a Moving Map.If you don't want to make any complex gauges like an FMC or Moving Map, XML should be totally ok! A gauge is written very quickly(just one file for one gauge!).If you have never done some programs in C, forget about it and try learning XML.At the beginning, keep some distance from calculations, as they look very messy! C code keeps very clear.If you want to calculate 1+1, you must write 1 1 +A bit confusing at the beginning. But after a week or so, you should be able to do gauges like switches or engine instruments or an ADI, Altimeter, ...Best regards,Harry :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Harry.Well said, thank you for the complement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks both of your for the answers to my question. I have been working with XML gauges a bit and think they work fine and are quite easy to program, but the idea of trying C is not totally unfamiliar to me, but for now I think I'll stick to XML/Jimmy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>If you want to calculate 1+1, you must write 1 1 +>A bit confusing at the beginning.Usual postfix (or polish) notation :)Some calculators uses it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The GPS is really done with XML??? Crazy, but very interessting. Looks like if XML is much more complex now!What do you mean with : "Though, it somehow must be faked..."How to fake a complete Gauge? You say it has 300kb, so why should it be faked? Everything must be written into the XML. Cause it must be VERY complex and VERY long if you write 300kb of plain text!!!So, maybe I should remove one point of the above said thing: Only in C, you are able to programm complex gauges. Maybe now, you also can do so in XML...would be great!!!Regards,Harri:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Etienne,Could you confirm though if the GPS functions are all self contained in the XML code or if they are enabled only because supporting functions are embedded in the FS9 modules?Has XML does not allow to I/O as you pointed out, could you confirm when you switch GPS mode in FS9 (for example leaving the NAV mode to the PROC mode, then revert back to the NAV mode) that your personal settings such as map declutter settings, map scale, on screen fields are restored to the last setting you set them to?Best,Jean-Luc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Harry and JeanLuc,It seems the XML GPS in FS9 is a "fake" because it is drawing stuff by calling C functions from DLLs. I cannot confirm this, but it seems this is what happens.And Harry, you could always make complex gauges with XML, but it would be so ridiculously messy that most don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>The GPS is really done with XML??? Crazy, but very>interessting. Looks like if XML is much more complex now!>Yes, and this GPS eats much fps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Harry:Well, as I said, I am no XML guy. What I just mean is that I don't see anything which gets all the airport/nav/terrain info etc., at least I dunno from where it gets them. I didn't say the 'complete gauge is faked', it just seems that both navigational as well as terrain drawings are just not really coded in the gauge, but it must somehow get it from FS directly, since the usual FS map view looks and behaves exactly the same. I'm not very sure about this. You and the other XML guys may have a look at it as soon as you got your copy.And of course you can do complex gauges with XML, no doubt. It's just personal preference if you can handle 4K lines of XML code. ;-)@Jean-Luc:Aren't you a tester by yourself? So why don't you have a look. I won't, since I don't get very much of the code, unfortunately.I was, by the way, talking about file I/O, sure, if you change from NAV to PROC and back to NAV the NAV page will look the same. But I have not found any code, also not in the GPS, which makes me think XML does now support file I/O. I may be wrong, of course, let's wait for the SDK.Rgds,Etienne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not made in XML. Only the "visible" things like Mouse Functions and buttons are in XML, the rest is made by a *dll in fs2004 modules folder, called gps.dll (p.e. I/O, GDI Drawings, Terrain).XML now seems to be able to draw GDI polygons and to call "extern" functions in a Flight simulator Module / Gauge.King Regards,Marcel Burrchief programmerbluesky software development

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a wonderful idea Etienne!Best,Jean-Luc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

????So I don't get it, JeanLuc, if you were indeed a beta tester, than why did you ask that question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hum Fabio, could it be there are so many new wonderful things to test in FS2004 for a beta tester that no beta tester can test everything? Whatever...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey JeanLuc,Sure it could, I just didn't get what you meant by your answer to Etienne saying that was a wonderful idea, instead of saying you didn't have time to look at that.Also don't understand the whatever...I asked too because during the beta you asked me if I was a beta tester (which you should know already from the newsgroup), to which I said no, but in the same thread you asked a bunch of questions about FS2004 that you should know. Where you testing me to see if I had an illegal copy? By that time, due to your questions, I did not think you were a beta tester. And if you thought yes about the copy, then I am sorry to disappoint you and let you know that I did not have it. As you know we developers cannot afford to be so careless, and on the same token, do not put up with piracy, for it hurts us too.So what else have you been testing with FS2004, anything you can share with us?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>That is a wonderful idea Etienne!>>Best,>>Jean-LucHaha, yeah, quite, huh?I can just say it again, I am no XML guy... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Fabio,I guess you are interpreting too much my words, or that I have a poor expression in English. I'm especially chocked to read what you publicly say in here about what you thought my intention was, given the number of private emails we have exchanged together.Anyhow, what I was saying above to Etienne is that it is a good idea I test for myself as he suggested, instead of asking around and try to point some potential flaws, and "whatever" means that there is no point to discuss about it any further, unless you want to waste your time (and mine), or make a public case about nothing.Besides, I never asked you if you were a beta tester but was rather referring to the point that if you indeed were a beta tester (in order not to reveal you were because of the NDA) then what you wrote shouldn't have been written given the non lifted NDA at this time.Here is the post you are talking about I suspect (with your message and my answer below):http://forums.avsim.com/dcboard.php?az=sho...pe=search#10542========================================================Just in case you don't read my answer on the other thread, yes, GDI/GDI+ based vector gauges show in the VC in FS9.[...]Fabio MiguezGauge ProgrammerFlight Factory Simulations==========================================================Hi Fabio,are you beta testing FSACoF? great!! does your post means that they have authorized beta testers to talk about it now and they are not covered by their NDA anymore? wow, I've a bunch of questions to ask then!!===========================================================It seems you did not get the true meaning of my message, or that I've not explained simply enough what I meant, which certainly was not to publicly try to claim you were having an illegal version of FS9 (this is your business, not mine, and I'm not a cop) but only was to make sure that any statement you made about FS9 was not in breach of a FS9 / beta test NDA agreement, and in turn, was not misleading the reader with assumptions on a product which is not released yet.Now if you are further referring to the following messages:============================================================Bonjour JeanLuc.My statement is neither a breach of NDA nor speculation. I am not beta testing FS9, but, along with several people who aren't beta testers either, have learned that vectors do show in any VC in this new version, emissive color or not, day or night.Best Regards,Fabio MiguezGauge ProgrammerFlight Factory Simulations============================================================Hi Fabio!by the way I've just noticed that you are now working for Flight Factory Simulation! Congratulations!"along with several people who aren't beta testers either, have learned that"I wonder how then... ============================================================Certainly I was referring to that either you have had an information from a third party source which was then either in breach of his beta NDA, or if your statement about not being a beta tester was true, then that what you said was only speculation on a non released product.It may end up that the final release do work as you suggested though.Hope this helps!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey JeanLuc,Yes this does help :-). Often it is hard to judge what exactly a person means by just reading the words, in place of hearing them say it in the tones they mean it. Plus the fact english is not our first languages does not help ;-).Anyways, I do value the information we have exchanged back and forth, I believe it has helped us both, and with this I would like to set this record clean. I apologize for my wrong assumptions, and will try to be clearer in future messages.And yes, you were right about the message I was referring too, good memory (and search skills ;-)).By the way, I like the new site! How is Jet Line doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi!As I don't have FS2004 already, I've to ask it here: FS2004 XML Gauges are now able to work with verctor Graphics. Is this Vector graphic thing this one: "Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) 1.2"as explained on this website:http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-SVG12-20030715/Cause if yes, I also wouldn't have any more problems with my Resing Runway, cause hen also this would be possible!Regards,Harry :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this