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Guest GeorgeDorkofikis

Runways questions

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Hello everybody.After a long time of inactivity I'm slowly getting back to scenery design. My current project is Heraklion HER/LGIR in Crete, Greece.As I have very detailed ground charts for this airport, I though it would be a nice idea to have it all made out by a set of square polygons cut off a huge bitmap. This bitmap/texture contains the whole airport. Grass, runways, taxiways, apron markings, everything.The result is quite nice. The whole airport is made out from 28 square polygons each containing one 1024x1024x8bit texture.Then during my flights I noticed a few things that I can't work out.1. My runway markings (white in the bitmap) look very realistic during dusk/dawn/night, while the default FS runways markings show up as grey rectangles, rather pale and dark. Does anyone know if the runway markings info is contained in any texture or bgl of FS? How are they drawn?2. The FS default runways use the standard type A FAA threshold markings. So for a 45m wide runway FS puts 8 'piano' keys. But in Europe, and most other places around the world, the type B threshold marking are used which for a 45m wide runway demands 12 'piano' keys (6 each side istof 4). Is there any way to change that in FS?3. While slewing around the airport I noticed that the textures look great from some angles, very crisp, while they look very blurred from other angles. If I stop and stay at the same place for a while the textures become crisp and when I move they blur again. Any ideas?4. Even though the airport only consists of 28 square polygons, it seems to have a lot of stuttering. I think this may be due to the large amount of textures it needs to load (28 x 1Mb). I only have an old TNT2 Ultra with 32Mb video memory, so this could be the case. Could someone confirm this is the issue? In LGAV (my other scenery) I also use a lot of textures but smaller in size and have no stutters, except when lining up rwy 03R. Again I don't know why.I am currently using Airport 2.60 for scenery design as it's the easiest and also gives me a chance to edit the SCASM source code before compiling. I would like to try GMax but it looks so hard!!!!Thank you in advance for your help.Regards,George DorkofikisAthens, Greece

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Nobody ??!??!?!Thanks anyway.George Dorkofikis

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Hi George,>1. My runway markings (white in the bitmap) look very >realistic during dusk/dawn/night, while the default FS >runways markings show up as grey rectangles, rather pale and >dark. Does anyone know if the runway markings info is >contained in any texture or bgl of FS? How are they drawn? I have no idea. I think they are drawn using a fixed color, but not sure.>2. The FS default runways use the standard type A FAA >threshold markings. So for a 45m wide runway FS puts 8 >'piano' keys. But in Europe, and most other places around >the world, the type B threshold marking are used which for a >45m wide runway demands 12 'piano' keys (6 each side istof >4). Is there any way to change that in FS?I think this will be hard to do. The best thing you can do (I think) is just not use the default runway and make your own.>3. While slewing around the airport I noticed that the >textures look great from some angles, very crisp, while they >look very blurred from other angles. If I stop and stay at >the same place for a while the textures become crisp and >when I move they blur again. Any ideas?Probably just the loading time. Most of the time you slew faster then you would fly, so during normal flight it would not bother you.>Again I don't know why.Never tried to make my airports that way, so don't have something to compare with. No idea.>I am currently using Airport 2.60 for scenery design as it's >the easiest and also gives me a chance to edit the SCASM >source code before compiling. I would like to try GMax but >it looks so hard!!!! GMax is great for 3D objects, you should really give it a try :). OK, it's a bit hard to learn, but once you can work a bit with it, it is really super.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Thanks for the reply Arno.I am using custom rwy textures for LGIR so I don't really need to use the default runways. I thing the blurry textures have to do with the video memory. I only have 32Mb + a 16Mb AGP apperture size, so virtually a total of 48Mb video RAM. LGIR is using 28 textures of 1024x768x8Bit so each texture is 1Mb. Doing the calculations LGIR alone requires at least 46Mb for textures. If I add the surrounding textures to that I get well over the 48Mb Video RAM that I have.The blurring occurs even during normal taxi where the speed is less than 15Kts. I also have the Mip-Mapping filter off as I like it better. If I turn it on, the textures look like a Picasso painting!One solution would be to reduce the size or the number of textures used, and the other to get me a new VGA... (I like the 2nd solution better... My TNT2Ultra is very old now).Currently I'm trying to program a custom runway API macro using only one basic ground texture and drawing over that the runway markings using retrangles. I hope that it will work.George DorkofikisAthens, Hellas

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Hi George.Part of the video problems may be due to using FS98 techniques with FS2002. The huge textured polygon requires an old Area 16n ( SCASM ) flatten under it, as well as the huge textures. Most of that problem could be eliminated by using the CUSTOM ( photoreal ) method to derive mesh-clinging ground texturing, and TMF-BGLC flattens for the airfield... or an Area16n for just the runway. The newer style runway command auto-flattens the terrain under it.For CUSTOM resampling and texture alterations, look up threads containing 'tlassiter' and 'bob5568'. Alternately, you could make decal TMFs for ground cover. Threads containing 'christian', 'Lee' and 'rhumbaflappy'.Dick

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Thanks Dick.I'll search for the threads.George DorkofikisAthens, Hellas

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Sorry to bother you again... :-)I've read most of the threads on the matter, although the images attached to most of them were not shown. Probably because they are older posts.Just to clarify. I can assign the textures to 'blocks' on the flattened mesh? Without the need of creating polygons? What if the airport texture/position does not match the position of the grid?Would appreciate any help on this as well as what tools I need to download.Thanks!George DorkofikisAthens, Hellas

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It is made using the resample tool. But I don't think it is very usefull for the airport itselft, as you have a resolution of 4.8 meters per pixel (and I think that is not good enough for an airport). The grid position doesn't matter, the resample tool takes care of that, you can enter the coordinates you want.At the moment I am doing some tests with such big textures for my airport and it works really well (good fps etc). I have made a simple SCASM file to place them.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Thanks for the advise Arno,Indeed 4.8m/Pixel is not that good quality you would expect for an airport with detailed taxiways, taxilines, apron markings etc...I now have 512Mb RAM so I increased the AGP apperture size to 64Mb, and the stutters are gone. The blur is still there but not that much. So video RAM is very important.I get very good fps in the range of 15-20s with my humble PC (Athlon 900Mhz, TNT2Ultra and all settings to 95%) with almost every a/c.Only the PSS Airbus is producing a lot of stutters but I think this may be due to the large textures the Airbus is using as well.I will have to redesign the base texture and reduce it's size to half so I will get 512x512 texture blocks istof 1024x1024 I now use. I hope this will improve things further.Problem is I can't resample the base texture because with the resize I loose the quality/crispiness of the texture. So I have to draw it again... Well... Back to the drawing board!Thanks for your help.George DorkofikisAthens, Hellas

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