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Guest andy58

Is Landsat-7 good enough?

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Thanks Holger Sandmanns tips I've made a test scenery using free available Landsat-7(BTW check Holger's Freeware Forum here http://forums.simflight.com/viewforum.php?f=231 )My concern is: is it worthy continuing as Landsat-7 data is generally 30m/pixel for color and 15m/pixel for B&W photos ...OK, here is the puzzle - who will be the first to tell where these shots were taken?:islandxxxbefore1cl.jpgislandxxxafter4db.jpg and the neighbour:islandyyybefore1tu.jpgislandyyyafter7uk.jpgWell, the Landsat-7 data is not what you should expect when utilize US USGS - it is 30m/pixel for color and 15m/pixel for black & white image but ... I like it and how do you? PS. I posted originally that info at http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?t=49601Cheers, Rysiek

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That first one looks kinda sorta like the island of Krakatoa...

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I probably wouldn't use the Landsat data as photo-real scenery, but instead I would limit thier use to making coastlines and landclass data (due to the resolution).- Martin

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Hi Rysiek,nice shots! It's a caldera in the first picture but which one I don't know ;-)I made those Landsat-based textures for the Everest area as an experiment more than anything else. Interestingly, I have received lots of positive feedback on it and quite a few requests for covering other areas of the Himalayas. I guess it works for that region because it's mostly rock and ice and the default land class and textures don't do a good job in portraying the variety of the barren surfaces. Moreover, I didn't have to worry about autogen and night lights.Keep in mind though that I "spliced" the 15-m panchromatic band into the spectral 30-m bands, which does help with the resolution. Also, I upsampled the image to 5-m resolution in Photoshop before sending it to resample.exe, which provides better control over interpolation. To do the splicing one can either do a RGB-to-HLS-to-RBG transformation, using the 15-m band as the "lightness" component for the HLS-to-RGB process, or directly blend the 15-m image in Photoshop using the "luminosity" feature.Cheers, Holger

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Thanks Holger again, and now for that procedure:"To do the splicing one can either do a RGB-to-HLS-to-RBG transformation, using the 15-m band as the "lightness" component for the HLS-to-RGB process, or directly blend the 15-m image in Photoshop using the "luminosity" feature."I will try it today. What I have done before was blending 15m B&W using opacity slider set to 50% to 30m color background ...More and more I look at that stuff then more I like to fly over it against any landclass coverage, even if it is blurry. Landclass is so artificial ...I hope that some additional experimenting with colors and sharpening will give enough good results to try cover some most interesting areas outside US and there are quite a few...Well, OK, the solution for the puzzle above is:http://www.santorini.net/geography.html :)

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Orca Island? maybe?BTW I am starting to work on the mount Waddington area in B.C using many of Holger's tips as well. Cheers Dan Martin

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I've been getting good results with NLT Landsat 7 Visible Color imagery with excellent alignment with SRTM 90 mesh. I uploaded an image the other day but something went wrong, probably me. There's screenshots on VirtualVFR if you want to check out how they look, particularly Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean.http://virtualvfr.com/Andy

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Thanks Andy, nice La Reunion and I just download your guides.My concern is still how to tune enough good the Landsat data, with right color and sharpness ..

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I normally resize the source image by 300% but sometimes only 200% depending on the effect it creates in the scenery in relation to sharpness. It's never going to be that great because by the time it comes out of Resample as scenery at 4.8m/pixel it's been resized 600%, 30m down to 5m. Even so, I find it suitable for criusing altitudes down to about 3000ft. and I get what it actually looks like out the window. It's quick and easy to make, 20-30 minutes from downloading in Worldwind to flying in Fsim and I can seamlessly join adjacent areas(the limitation is the source image accepted by Resample.exe, about 10000pixels high.I think I vary the gamma to adjust the colour but rarely need to with the NLT dataset.Andy

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I've come up with another little refinement. I mentioned I usually resize my 30m/pixel source mosaic by 300%(10m/pixel)using bicubic resample method prior to processing to avoid the coarse result you get if you let Resample.exe take it directly down to 5m/pixel. The 10m/pixel image has about 1/2 million colours so I tried reducing the colours to 32k colours and it had the effect of sharpening the image slightly, enough to make a difference for the better in the final scenery.Andy

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Hi again guys,as I proceed with some interesting areas to be covered with Landsat-7 textures, I would like to present you with a taste of Africa:Mount Kilimanjaro in an early morning light:kilim010wq.jpg...and some surroundings:kilim024jr.jpgDecompressed size of 160 x 120 km2 area may eat up (rough calculation) 50 - 80 MB download size and of 400MB HDD space. So, the question is still the same: will some of you be interested in installing such cover, if will be uploaded to, let's say, Avsim.com ?

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Hi there,wow, those screenshots do look very nice.I'm pretty sure that prominent landmarks will always find happy users in FS, just look at the download numbers for my Everest photoreal textures.How come the discrepancy you mention between download size and HDD space? Have you made seasonal textures?Cheers, Holger

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Hi!,>How come the discrepancy you mention between download size and>HDD space? Have you made seasonal textures?>No seasons here, in Africa ;-)Those 400MB is a plain sum of all 43kB photo textures but when compressed with an intelligent compressor like WinRAR the size shrinks down much.I guess now because I test scenery using less then half of possible target coverage.I have to test also a new idea of RGB->HSL->RGB algorithm to preserve sharpness and get right color. The idea is to do much of processing (enlarging) on separate RGB+ B&W Landsat-7 layers and join them just in the end. Regards, Rysiek

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What size is your source image as a jpg file? You can create a batch mode scenery uploading a jpg, batch, inf file with Resample and ImageTool. The user resaves the jpg as bmp, then runs the batch file to create the scenery.I uploaded an example, Reunion.ZIP to virtualvfr last week but it's not available yet. I'll get back onto them or upload it to Avsim myself. It's based on the scheme demonstrated by Patric Foggarty with his ACT2K.ZIP scenery here on Avsim but updated to use the latest FS2004 SDK tools. You can edit to use with other source image and inf file to minimise the size for up/downloading to not much more than the jpg.The source imagery from Worldwind used in the scenery turned out to be public domain according to their FAQ and no restrictions on using them.Andy

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Having read the uploader copyright issues warning there might be a problem uploading the SDK Tools, Resample and Imagetool, although it's been done in the past with other uploads and utilities that rely on them.Anybody know what the situation is with this.I can post the batchfile listing so you can see how it's done but you would be faced with the same problem with your own upload using this method.We could always upload without them and have the use provide them themselves.Andy

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>What size is your source image as a jpg file? You can create>a batch mode scenery uploading a jpg, batch, inf file with>Resample and ImageTool. The user resaves the jpg as bmp, then>runs the batch file to create the scenery.>Mmm, interesting concept ... like to prepare a pizza using own microvawe owen :))Should keep an eye on it, when the info will come up ...Size of a JPG used to be 10x less then BMP, normally?Pretty interesting but this means that everyone user should invest his/her time to run resampler...and there also could be a drop in quality because of BMP->JPG conversion?Cheers, Rysiek

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Just an UPDATE:I've downloaded ACT ( Australia ) Upgrade by Patrick Fogarty (act_2002.zip) and have read the readme file.Looks very promising. I wonder if ClickTeam installer (http://www.clickteam.com/) could be used to automate conversion process?Then I wait for your .bat version, Andy.Cheers, Rysiek

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He actually includes a utility called DJPG that converts the JPG to BMP but I found it only worked with smaller files than I use and it's not hard for the user to resave as a BMP and resize. (Convim.EXE Martin Wrights Image Format Converter does most formats including DDS, DXT, BMP etc and the resize seems to be bicubic resample or as good as).This is the text of the batch file I use. It is just changed for the later version of the utilities and so that you get to see the prompts while while the scenery is being created and the textures converted to DXT format. The FS2004 SDK versions are 1004 for Resample and 1003 for ImageTool. They produce different output than the earlier ones, no TMF file and different graphic files.I can't see any real difference between producing scenery this way or directly with the usual utilities. You would loose detail if you resized the image and I only do that because my source is only 30m in the firstplace. You wouldn't do that with yours but the upload would be bigger than mine which is less than 2MB.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/145190.txt

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Thanks for the example.I think the best solution for me in practise would be to write a specialized installer (in VB6), containing JPG -> BMP conversion code (for example:FreeImage (incl. bicubic resampling!) from http://freeimage.sourceforge.net/download.html) and also Microsoft's resample.exe and imagetool.exe.MS does write this in his EULA of FS2004 Terrain SDK:"Redistributable Code.You may reproduce and distribute portions of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT designated as

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Great looking scenery. Yes, thanks, I went through the EULA too and found that it's ok to redistribute the files. I found one redist.txt but there was nothing listed in it so no extra files need to be included in the upload. Maybe they no longer include it if nothing is required.I wish I had kept up with my programming for what I was wanting to do too, to create a multisource inf file to save assembling a mosaic from the source images. I think I can do it through the spreadsheet that I calculate the coords with using macros. Worth playing around with.That area you mention is massive. My limitation is assembling the mosaic by hand, each 512x512 tile represents about 15km x 15km, which is why a utility to do it would come in handy. I've done the pseudocode and have the formula from the spreadsheet so time will tell.I'll upload my Reunion scenery to the File Library tonight, it's only about 2MB.CheersAndy

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Foiled again. When I read the conditions fully they want an email contact for the author in the readme. I not getting back into all that spam again so I'll have to pass. I'll check back with virtualVFR and see if they've checked it out yet and let you know.On the other front I'm well into testing my spreadsheet macro to create multisource inf files. I've struck a problem with it not concatenating some values into a writeln string in the output but it looks like I should have it working once I sort that out.What I am working toward is:Getting a rough coord from Fsim.Downloading an area with a TileDownloader which also gives me the tile numbers.(Many datasets and resolutions)Confirm the tiles I want to use with Explorer thumbnail view.Enter the UL and LR tile number in my spreadsheet and run the macro to produce the inf file.Batch resize the source images involved.Run the inf file with Resample/ImageTool.It may not be very elegant but I'd estimate less than a half hour turn around per scenery based on what I am already able to do. I should be able to do quite large, even irregular areas if Resample works the way it does with mesh.RegardsAndy

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Hi!>Foiled again. When I read the conditions fully they want an>email contact for the author in the readme. I not getting back>into all that spam again so I'll have to pass. I'll check back>with virtualVFR and see if they've checked it out yet and let>you know.Spam is not a problem for me, I get tons of it already :)If I will make an installer I will attach resample.exe and imagetool.exe somwhere "inside" and wait if I make any harm to MS with that, or NO.>Downloading an area with a TileDownloader which also gives me>the tile numbers.(Many datasets and resolutions)>Confirm the tiles I want to use with Explorer thumbnail view.You mean World Wind environment here, Andy?I grab "mine" Landsat-7 from here: http://glcfapp.umiacs.umd.edu:8080/esdi/index.jspand cut-off appriopriate areas, using similar Excel engine, than yours, I guess.Regards, Rysiek

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OK,as I proceed I've found that mine color guessing was not, ummmmmm, right enough. Thanks Google Earth I corrected HUE conversion to something more apriopriate then before, I guess.BTW- next areas can be added quicker and quicker because of some Excel basic routines, automating the process of .inf generation.Mount Kenya, this time:mtkenya016lq.jpgRegards, Rysiek

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The MS utilities are redistributed in many of the Fsim utilities already, FSResample Tool, SRTM TO BGL, Photo Scenery Maker I think and several others.The TileDownloader I use is a Worldwind related utility that gives more control over what you download rather than just panning around in Worldwind.http://forum.worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/index....wtopic=3004&hl=If you download to a folder other than Worldwind the tiles will remain jpg. Into WW itself they are converted to DDS when it runs which means you need to use the Nvidia Explorer utility to view them as thumbnails in Explorer.I resolved most of my problems with the macro and am producing multisource inf files, at last! Just need to add a counter to number the sources and I'm done. Was an interesting exercise. Have never actually done a macro before and my last programming was back in the 80's, Basic, Pascal, Forth(my favourite then), C, I think C+ was just coming in, it's the last textbook I bought.Andy

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