Sign in to follow this  
Guest Capholland

AI traffic anomalies ... need help--for GA_MAKER utilit

Recommended Posts

I've been experimenting with a bunch of freeware aircraft (mainly GMAX) that I want to release with my next update of GA Traffic Maker (see my earlier post on this utility here: http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...um=DCForumID13). This would, of course, be contingent on permission from the authors and repainters of those models.However, some of the aircraft I tested exhibit peculiar behavior when used as AI, and I was hoping somebody here could shed some light on how/if these things can be fixed. I would prefer not to have to replace any files (such as AIR or CFG files with default ones), since these are the work of other people that I hope to be able to redistribute with their permission, leaving their original aircraft flyable and not significantly altered in any way, especially where flight characteristics are concerned.So, here are some of the problems I'm having, in the hopes that somebody can tell me what specifically would need to be looked at or tweaked in order to fix them:1 - Certain aircraft, on an ILS approach with no wind, will be established nicely on the glideslope when, for no apparent reason, they'll start to climb just short of the threshold, with the result that they then have to make a sudden dive to land. Sometimes this crashes the plane (it disappears though there are plenty of parking spaces open), sometimes the plane simply declares and executes a missed approach, and occasionally (and often with a lot of smoke) it actually manages to land. What causes this sudden ascending? (I've already checked, and the airport altitude in FS and in Airports.txt is identical.2 - Certain aircraft porpoise during the entire descent, often leading to less than soft landings, and occasionally to crashes.3 - Other aircraft consistently execute a missed approach, generally because they either came in too high, or ascended near the threshold. 4 - Some aircraft consistently crash under this condition.5 - One aircraft never makes it to the runway, but begins a steep descent as soon as it is cleared for landing. It burrows into the ground, and is then told to "Contact ground" which I find a bit cruel ;-) on the part of the ATC controllers. (This aircraft's readme did state that it is very complex to fly, so that might be the reason. But maybe it isn't.)6 - Another aircraft (a type of ultralight) never seems to find the airport. Using TrafficLook.exe from FSUIPC, I notice that the aircraft, instead of establishing an approach course like all other aircraft do, gets to a certain point, then heads off in a different direction away from the airport. I didn't wait around for it to make it across the world and hit the airport from the other direction ;-)Any help or tips on how these problems can be remedied will be helpful. Or if your best advice is, "Just ignore that plane and try to find another one" I'll accept that as well. I have about six models that work flawlessly with GA Traffic Maker. Whether I'll get permission to include them all with various repaints is another matter. So the more models I have to work with, the more comfortable I'll feel, ha! And if I can get some of the above issues resolved, I'll have at least six additional models to play with.Thanks already for your time and any input or help you can offer! - Caphollandhttp://flightsimmers.net/va/caphollandshttp://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I think aerodynamics mods will be your only recourse. However, what changes would be needed is a crap shoot!"and is then told to "Contact ground" which I find a bit cruel on the part of the ATC controllers" :-lolAlso you could wait a Looonnnngg time on an ultralight to circle the earth! :-lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy Capholland:I agree with W. Siefert's opinion that you won't have much choice with 'unruly' behavior of AI aircraft; in most cases you'll need to modify the .air and aircraft.cfg files.I've spent quite a few hours watching aircraft crashing and taking off on round-the-world trips myself (I'm using the aiview.dll module to follow them around; mountain through-flying provides for funky visual effects :-) and tweaking aircraft files ain't much fun either but it sure is nice to beat an aircraft into ATC submission, so to speak.I'm about to upload a set of AFCAD files and flightplans for small airports/aircrafts in southern British Columbia and the readme files will contain my current state of knowledge (thanks to these active FS forums and my own experiments) about AI aircraft management. Briefly, a flight plan designer has four options available to influence the behavior of AI aircraft and their flight plans: aircraft type, flight mode (IFR vs. VFR), flight level (altitude), and airport location/runway designation. You can achieve quite a bit with the latter three options but almost all of the problems you mention are related to the aircraft files themselves. Only problem 3, the too-high approaches, are usually an artifact of where FS places the aircraft once it enters the currently "active" quadtree world (there are threads about this somewhere in this forum).My solution is to tweak the aircraft.cfg files of the add-ons I'd like people to use with my flightplans and, if successfull, upload those (and only those) with the flightplans, along with instructions how to install them in combination with the original aircraft. I won't send around any original files but I don't see a difference about telling people in detail how to change parameters in the aircraft.cfg files or uploading these files directly. Any differing opinions on this are appreciated.By the way, of the add-on small aircraft I have tested, the following work as AI without tweaking and without massive framerate hits(!):- Piper Malibu Meridian GMax by Mike Stone (smerid02.zip)- Beech B33 Debonair 1962 by Geoffrey Applegate and James Eden (b33.zip; the AI model)- Valmet L-70 Vinka (military), part of the Finnish Air Force package by Mikko Maliniemi and Kari Virtanen (fafai_v1.zip).I have more than a dozen other ones that I use for AI (both GA civilian and military), and all of them I had to tweak, or are in the process of tweaking. I'd be interested in the names/types of the six aircraft that work for you and success reports from other people.Cheers,Holger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Holger. Thanks for your response. Mike Stone's Meridian is on my list (alone with a few other of his aircraft). Gave that Debonair a try as well, works beautifully. Other GA-style aircraft that work well for me are:- Aeronca Chieftan (by Mike Stone) - SCHIEF1.ZIP- Beechcraft 1900D (by Mike Stone) - SB1900D.ZIP (repaints available)- DHC6 Twin Otter "Metro" (by Barry Blaisdell) - DH6MEt22.ZIP- DHC6 Twin Otter "Cable" (by Barry Blaisdell) - CABLEDH6.ZIP- Cessna Citation Bravo (by Keith A. Whyte) - BRAVO.ZIP + UPGD550.ZIP- Cherokee Arrow (by Warren Baier) - ARROW3.ZIP- Caphollandhttp://flightsimmers.net/va/caphollandshttp://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sending your list. Interesting, though, both the Aeronca Chief and the B1900 I had to tweak (using the Debonair and Beech 350 .air files, respectively). I am somewhat suspicious that whether a AI add-on crashes or not might be related to the way of observing it (Quantum theory effects in FS2002, groovy!). I am using AIVIEW.dll, generally with simulation time set to 2x, and I noticed that setting time back to normal or slower, or simply not clicking on an aircraft but just monitoring it on the AIVIEW screen would result in different outcomes. How do you go about monitoring/testing AI aircraft?I'll have a look at the other planes on your list.Cheers, Holger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of these aircraft still handle unpredictably at times, and fine at others. But they have the highest percentage rate of succesful landings.I test them visually at Amsterdam Schiphol airport. I modified an overlay to make runway 22/4 a GA only runway, connected to GA only parking slots on that side of the airport, and called it GHAM. Then the main airport (EHAM) is used for commercial traffic.To test my planes, I created a set of flight plans in which they all take off from GHAM, and land at EHAM. It takes them about 10 minutes to circle around after takeoff to where they're lined up with runway 1R/19L (a "landing only" runway) of EHAM.That way, if I position my aircraft right, I can watch both runways in spot view. I usually run at 4x speed to let all the aircraft take off, pretty much one right after the other. Then as soon as I see them (I do have to pan around a bit) lining up for approach on 1R, I switch to normal speed and watch them come in. The "accident" rate is higher at 2x or 4x, I noticed. The Aeronca Chief has never had any problems. It lands a little hard sometimes and makes a lot of smoke, but always survives. There are two B1900D models out there. One of the files (ROI1900.ZIP) seems to be an older model, and that one always crashed on my setup. But the model in the file I listed above (SB1900D.ZIP) works much better. The flight model is still plagued by the occasional tendency to start ascending right before the threshold, leading to some rather hard landings, and an occasional crash at 2x or 4x. But more often than not, at normal speed, it will make a decent landing.They work good enough for me. Whether or not I'll include them with my final package hinges on the responses I'll get from the developers/repainters of those models. - Caphollandhttp://flightsimmers.net/va/caphollandshttp://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this