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Leen3131cs

c4to is back , and with force!

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Guest tonyc

Dr Tony Rider has done it again. FLY2 has a very powerful atc module that makes this sim so much fun to fly. Try c4to with Didier's VolNav and Infometar and you're off to a great experience.tony

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Guest

Thanks for the kind words. I am making changes to C4TO quite rapidly now. I suspect that I will upload another beta sometime midweek as time allows. Known problems in the current beta:Visual approach logic is broken.UNICOM logic is broken. Higher and lower altitude requests only semi-functional.These are all fixed and will be in the next beta.By the way, C4TO now correctly chooses frequencies for UNICOM and Clearance Delivery. It also chooses runways with ILS correctly. And if the winds don't permit the selection of an ILS runway, then C4TO now correctly and automatically switches to visual approach mode. I am also working on an ATIS simulation, but don't know how long that will take. Cheers, Tony

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Hi Tony,That's great news; I can't wait. I tried it briefly last night, and here's what I found.I tried two flights. One from S05 to KLM in Oregon state, via the Rogue Valley VOR. After making the flight plan, and starting up c4to, I can contact clearance OK. But then he tells me to contact ground on frequency "000.0". If I use the auto-tune feature at that point, c4to seemed to hang. Resetting it with ctrl-alt-/, and starting over at that point makes the sim crash with the following printed in gtfo.txt:Msg: Fatal error caused by .DLL "systemmodulespcC4TO.dll" in DLLIdle routine.File: Dllman.cpp line 1619Time: Sun Mar 23 20:22:22 2003My second flight went somewhat better. Started in RDD going to KLM via some NDB close to KLM that I forgot off hand. Everything worked fine except requesting higher and lower alts was somewhat spurradic. Unfortunately I wasn't able to complete that flight for unrelated reasons.Hopefully my report is helpful...BTW, now that c4to is a real DLL, I wonder if it might become possible to use it as an engine to move AI aircrafts as well. Then we could have things like "hold short for landing traffic" actually happen when there is landing traffic, and so forth :)John/madmax

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Guest DNelson

>And if the winds don't permit the selection of an ILS runway, then C4TO now correctly and automatically switches to visual approach mode.:-hmmm That logic wouldn't necessarily be correct in the real world. Presumably, since ILS approaches are in use, visual approaches may not be possible due to low ceiling/visibility. If the wind does not favor an ILS runway, several things could happen:a. If a runway more aligned with the wind has a non-precision approach, use that approach (assuming runway length and weather allow).b. Start the ILS, then circle to another runway, assuming circling weather minimums are met.c. If a and b don't work, land on the ILS runway if the crosswind and/or downwind component is within the pilot's and aircraft capability.d. If a, b, and c don't work, head to your alternate.I'm not throwing darts, just trying to add some real-world perspective. I know that both Fly! and C4TO have a number of limitations when it comes to air traffic control and IFR, and I appreciate your work.Dan

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Guest spenik

Wow! I had no Idea so much was in c4to! I thought that perhaps it was a few more phrases that ATC would say, but this is in credible!I would be using it now, but I have a Mac ( and proud too! ) and if I am not mistaken, c4yo is only for PC. Am I?If their is, I would love to know where It can be found!By the way, Does any one know of a place I can go to to find out more about how real world ATC runs? I find it facinating...Lastly, if thier is a Mac version of c4to, I think a post to the Mac users form would be apreciated by the users their!

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Thanks John.I'll try your first flight plan and see what's going on. There's likely to be some radio frequency that I'm misinterpreting.As far as the higher/lower stuff is concerned, I've fixed that bug and it should be working in my next submission.Thanks again,Tony

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Hi Dan,Yep, there are limitations. Here's what my logic actually does:If visibility is less than 3 miles (I'm actually thinking about making this a configuration setting), then force the use of an ILS runway regardless of winds.Otherwise, use best runway. If best runway is nonprecision, then switch to visual approach. I know that this is less than optimal but there is no way to specify an alternate airport nor to know what the acceptable crosswind limits are for an aircraft (I could create a new database for Fly! II where this information could be stored and I have thought about it, but at the moment it's a pipe dream). The only thing I might be able to pull off is creating logic for circling minimums. I'll have to think about that one. Perhaps, something like:If visibility is less than 5 miles, use ILS runway XX until airport in sight then circle to runway YY. Should be reasonably easy to do. I might even be able to jury rig the current sound files to work with this type of approach.Finally, the notion of an alternate airport is not entirely out of the question. One idea I've had is to read Fly! II flight plans so that the destination airport is actually the alternate airport just in case the navigation fix immediately prior to the destination airport is also an airport. In this case, the airport specified as the last navigation fix will be the real destination airport, at least as far as C4TO would be concerned. If I were to do this, then I could be far more realistic as regards airports that are socked in. However, if both the primary and secondary airports are socked in, I get the same problem I have now--i.e., no way to redirect the aircraft to an acceptable alternate. Cheers, Tony

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Guest

The Mac problem is a concern. I don't have one and don't know anyone who does. If someone out there is a Mac programmer with good C++ skills, I would be willing to work with you on porting C4TO to Mac. Let me know...Cheers, Tony

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Guest ftessler

Tony,I'll ask over on the Mac forum. (Unfortunately, my major programming days are behind me.)Thanks.-Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator

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Guest tonyc

tony,1.For the alternate airport, you may want to tie it to VolNav. Let's face it, an IFR flight plan requires that the pilot pick a suitable alternate. Together with VolNav, I use Infometar and the "Persistent" mode in FLY2 to fly in a virtual(real) environment. I create my flight plan with VOLNAV, including my return flight if Iam flying a commuter typical route, add an Infometar generated weather and, with autoweather, I have a great environment in which to fly. C4TO simply adds fantastic ATC in this Persistent world. I've tried using VOLNAV with C4TO and so far it works beautifully. With all of these add onswe may be looking at some great total solution. I hope David Sandberg works on Infometar to add even more functionality to his program. tony

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Guest

Tony,Same here for the "000.0" problem as well as the crash after resetting even if I do not get an error message (XP home related ?)My first flight was from LFPJ to LFMP and the second from LFMT to LFBOand it happened on both flights.I only used Fly!'s flightplanner and not VolNav. The database was updated with ROTW's DEX files for France. Could it be possible for the next release to create a routine which would automatically replace a "000.0" frequency by a fake but tune-able one until you find a solution ? Keep up the great workCheersJean-Paulhttp://www.simvol.org/fly/avatars/logojp.gif

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Hi Jean-Paul,I've already found the problem. Essentially, the airports in question are uncontrolled without ground control or a tower. In these cases, the only frequencies available are CTAF or MULTICOM. I've changed the logic so that in the case of departure from an uncontrolled field, you must tune your radio to the appropriate CTAF (or MULTICOM) frequency and use ALT-1 to declare that you are taxiing to the active, ALT-4 to declare that you are taking the active, and ALT-5 to declare that you are clear of the active. When you are 2500 feet AGL of your departure airport, you can switch to center for en-route vectoring. Clearance delivery continues to be available with the fabricated frequency 118.3 (if necessary). Listen for verbal clues in the clearance delivery response. I'll upload a new version tonight.Cheers, Tony

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That's great news Tony. Concerning your new version, will we have to download a new 24 mb package or will it be possible to only download an update ? (for us 56k modem users)For the ones who never tried the new c4to, download the updated version as soon as possible. You won't regret it. CheersJean-Paul http://www.simvol.org/fly/avatars/logojp.gif

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Hi Jean-Paul,I'll post two versions: a "patch" to v3.1, and complete v3.1.Cheers, Tony

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Ah yes, the bug list grows...I'll try to get to fixing that one. Thanks for reminding me.Cheers, Tony

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Tony,I've never looked at the Fly SDK, but is there any possibility of using c4to to control the movement of AI aircraft? Seems to me that could turn into a pretty cool system, with the user controlled plane fitting into a coherent picture of many planes all controlled by the same ATC logic. I have this mental picture of controllers warning "traffic at your 10 o'clock, 5 miles, is a Cessna 172", and having a cessna actually be there. FU3 used to have a system somewhat like that, although it was also fairly buggy.Just an idea...Regardless, thanks for all your work on this thing. It really adds a lot to Fly.John/madmax

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Hi All,Nice to hear that C4T0 is getting a spring clean.I have written C++ some code in FSI to animate the active runways.The visual models are based on aircraft from (1) local converted FS sceneries and now (2) from converted FS aircraft MDL files. This new method provides for lots more low poly "static" aircraft modules. I then use the SDK functions to display the models and use my own code to "fly" them. I started to add ATC stuff but I know that others are also programming ATC. C4TO is the best basis since it was written by a real world controller. Just as you said, it would be great to have the ATC sound, AI traffic and AI visuals in sync. I do not have the knowledge, time or energy to do this so I can make the following offer. Tony, if you want I can send you those C++ source code modules from my FS_SCNRY which you could use to acccess, "fly" and display such models. Then you could integrate them into C4TO. You and a few others could, in time, add a "timetable" interpreter to match up ATC, aircraft, times, visual models etc. Padraic (Podjoe) Morgan.

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I'm back to Fly 2 again after being out of touch for over a year and so much has changed with the program.In reading the boards, getting up to date with patches, downloading and installing all the 'must haves'...along comes the recommendation to try out c4to...atc in Fly 2 that works reliably and is dynamic?!?! Hah! I remember wanting to leverage Fly 2 during my IFR training over a year ago, but the dismal ATC forced to me purchase Jeppesen Flitepro because of the IFR scripts available for it. So understand why I chortled sarcastically as I downloaded the file, read through the instructions and installed it...Then last night, I decided to fly a short IFR flight from KAUS to HDO in the 172. It's been a year since I have been under the hood with a bucking airplane trying to keep my instrument scan fast enough to stay ahead of contrails ;) and after some distraction (which included some other ATC chatter, needles going everywhere and the airplane behaving 'too dynamically') imagine my surprise when ATC tells me that 'blahblahblah sierra papa, it appears you're off course, change heading to 230'...WHAT! How the hell did he know that?!? Sure was off course but jeeze...just like a controller :) I ended up declaring an emergency over San Antonio and taking the ILS approach to 12R at KSAT instead of continuing to HondoIMHO, C4TO is the best thing since sliced bread, the discovery of fire and quantum physics. Thanks to Dr. Rider for creating an exceptional add-on that has turned Fly 2 into my keep forever and never ever think again about buying FS2002 sim sim...anyone that can do that, deserves a pat on the back.mogwai

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Hallo Tony,At this moment I use c4tov2 and Flyscripts201.I downloaded c4to v3.1.I have two questions.1 Which files do I have to remove from the c4tov2 or is it possible to place the new files and overwrite some old ones.2 Is Flyscripts201 still needed or should it be removed. ( or can I leave it where it is)RegardsLeen de Jager

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Guest

You can leave Fly!Scripts installed if you like, but you should remove the c4tov2.fse and atccfg.fsc files from your Fly!Scripts folder. Once you have a flight plan loaded, you should use CTRL-ALT-/ to start a new ATC situation. Cheers, Tony

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I appreciate the praise, but a majority of the credit goes to Marc Schrier, the originator of C4TO for Fly!Scripts. I've simply ported it and made some adjustments to improve a number of Fly!Scripts limitations that Mr. Schrier was constrained by.Cheers, TonyP.S. My name is Dr. Anthony Crider, not Dr. Rider. :-)

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