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TerraShape and TurboCAD (all versions)

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Hi allI have found the problem with TurboCAD opening the dxf files created using TerraShape,It's fixed in the new build on my site tonight.It was a very minor thing, just a CR missing from the end of the file :(The TurboCAD message about file error on line 0 was totally misleading, and wrong (and wasted a lot of my time) :-grrIf any users with other brands of CAD program have any problems, please let me know here or by mail. I have d/l TurboCAD LE which is *free* on IMSI's site and have been testing with this.The LE designation is NOT for a 'lite' version as I thought.TurboCAD LE is the full version of TurboCAD 4 Professional and is a very capable program, perfectly adequate for our needs.If you are looking for a 'cheap' CAD program, I recommend it :)Colin

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G'day Colin, >I have found the problem with TurboCAD opening the dxf files >created using TerraShape, That's great news !!!>If any users with other brands of CAD program have any >problems, please let me know here or by mail. You have email! :-) :-)Thanks for all your hard work. As a scenery tool terrashape is up there with the best of them. This program just makes Fly!II that much better.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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G'day Colin,I visited the IMSI site and looked at the TurboCad LE blurb.LE = learning edition (for people like me :-) )The idea being if they can get one started on turbocad then they have got you hooked for life as a prospective customer.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Colin:Thanks so much!It worked beautifully! I've finally been able to edit the coast of Buenos Aires around SABE (Aeroparque Jorge Newbery).I was wondering if there's a way to place a photo underneath the project, so you could follow the coast. The concept would be similar to that of TerraModels or Taxiway. I haven't looked around yet.Thanks again!Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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Alejandro,That would depend entirely upon the capabilities of the CAD program, nothing else.The problem that I can forsee is one of scaling.The other possibility is a raster to vector program.I've been playing with several and the reults are very different.In the meantime, doing the drawing by eye can give some very good results, check out Andrew's (Hagar) Norwegian Airports.Colin

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Colin:I played around with TurboCAD LE (Learning Edition) and was able to do it. I just added a picture of what I want to create and then "sent it to the back" underneath the coast. Now all I have to is modify the coast following the photo and that's it.Another question: At least in TurboCAD LE, the file is basically a series of tiles (like a grid) next to each other (reminds me of the elevation model). If you change one of these tiles, then you need to change the adjacent one(s). Is this the way it is or would it be possible to draw a single, multi-node, line? The reason why I ask this is because I wanted to add interior lakes and rivers and was wondering if I could just add the polygons or if I had to follow this same "tiles" method.I still can't believe the potential that TerraShape has created.Thanks so much!Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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G'day Alejandro, >>I still can't believe the potential that TerraShape has >created. For those of us outside of the USA don't have available all the usdg and dem's. Data for Todds Terrascene is only available as DCW shapefiles. Terrashape has opened up a whole new world for us. We can now edit those shapefiles. You mentioned adding interior waterways - lakes, rivers, reservoirs etc.Using Terrashape to modify downloaded shapefiles I have added all that to my small Sydney project. I kept the best till last. Thanks to Colin's Terrashape program the watery runway/taxiway traps of coastline airports - the worst bug in Fly!II (imho)now has a cure. :-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpyThank you ColinCheers,Roger @YSSY

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Hi AlexI'm glad that you are enjoying it :)It is time consuming, but it's an alternative to trying to edit TGAs.I personally lean more towards CAD programs than graphic editing programs - I'm not very artistic!For lakes and rivers you have a choice.If you want 'real' water, i.e. so you can land a seaplane and also get the water effects that Fly! offers then you have to use the GTP tiles to get this. You also may have to use Ground Tile Transformer to set the underlying tile type to water.If you just want to 'see' some water, then you could add polygons to the shapefile. These polygons are normally on the dnetp layer (Drainage Network Polygons). These lakes will, in effect, just be 'painted' on.TerraScene should then include these lakes in the watermask but Fly! won't know that it is water.You would be able to land a land-plane on them, but a seaplane would probably crash.If you want a piece of coastline on a (ground) tile that is (say) half water and half land then the tile has to be land type. Fly! uses the GTP/watermask to generate it's water effects.All this sounds very complicated! The GTP files are used for generic scenery.The underlying ground types are used regardless of what texture is painted on them. That's why you get sinking taxiways.Colin

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That is correct, why?Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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Ahh now Terrashape is starting to gain momentum! Well I have been trying to bang the truth of this programs enormous potential into your heads for a while :)Ever since the first Fly! version of Terrascene, all of us outside the US really got an incomplete package. Making scenery up to the US standard was impossible without working in Photoshop for months and reslicing my`ol puter to death. Thats the reason I didn`t upload my Fly! sceneries, I felt they were not good enough to share.And I was about to give up Terrascene, but then came Terrashape!

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G'day Alejandro, I'm having mega problems trying to get Terrashape working on my machine , AMD 1700 XP with Ali Magic chipset and Win 98 SE. I noticed your post that you have sucessfully edited a coastline. I just have my suspicions that there is something amiss with my setup and that is what prompted my previous post. I would be very interested to hear from anyone on the forum who has successfully used Terrashape on win 98SE. On the computer genius scale I rank only one step above idiot. :-) Could you please just give me a few clues as to what you do after you have made the changes to the file within Turbocad LE.I notice that the help file states the dxf format is R13. How do I get R12 ?? The blurb on the website said it's R14 !! ie. What settings etc you use to save it How you convert it back to the fly! format and what you do with the Fly format files once you get them.Somewhere in there I'm going terribly wrong as no matter what I do I end up with Fly! crashing to desktop at the Helicopter screen.Please help before the frustration sends me crazy :-)Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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G'day Andrew, Mate I'm doing a quick survey. Have you altered any coastline GTP files and if so what is the OS of your system. It looks like this might be the impetus I need to justify an upgrade to Win XP.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Hi Roger,I`ve tried all the Microsoft stuff from the first DOS and up. Windows 95 was a time bomb, full of bugs. Win98SE also had a devil built-in, and I never touch those again. I got so mad I even put the CD`s in the recycle bin. Before I touch the 95 series again, I`d rather try Linux. Now I use WinXP Home, and I like it very much. Still has a built-in devil, but a rather peaceful one :-halo BTW I don`t have a clue about gtp files yet.

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G'day Andrew,>I`ve tried all the Microsoft stuff from the first DOS and >up. Windows 95 was a time bomb, full of bugs. Win98SE also >had a devil built-in, and I never touch those again. I got >so mad I even put the CD`s in the recycle bin.It's not my intention to start an anti MS$ campaign. I have had a very happy relationship with Win 98SE. :-) until now :-(Colin has tested Terrashape on both XP and Win 2000 and thinks that it *should* work on ANY of the 32 bit win based OS's.It's only that all the people who so far have posted success with Terrashape modifying the gtp files are using XP?I have used Terrashape with QuickCAD just to modify shape files and although the info was flattened into the 0 layer I have found that I could work around that problem to some extent.I have recently downloaded TurboCad LE (free) and thanks to Colin this can now open the dxf files with the data correctly layered. So I have full shapefile modification available under Win 98SE. This alone makes Terrashape an invaluable asset to any scenery designer outside of the continental USA >BTW I don`t have a clue about gtp files yet. This is argueably the best feature of Terrashape. Just imagine the intricate fiords that you could make with genuine water (not just painted water) that you could land a seaplane on!If one is unfortunate enough to have an airport built on reclaimed land from the sea Fly!II unfortunately still sees that airport's fundamental attribute as water even though land texture has been placed over the top of it and Terrashape has the capability of allowing the coastline gtp files to be modified to allow for the landfill.Terrashape is too good a scenery tool to miss.If it works out that I need a new OS to run it then a new OS it will be. The jury is still out on that however.Cheers and thanks for the commisserations,Roger @YSSY

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Roger,I am not trying to start an anti-MS campaign. But I have to mention that I don`t like their exceptional arrogance :)Also, I had a steady Win98SE for a couple of years, but I still dislike it!Regarding gtp files I simply haven`t had any need for this yet. The reason is that all the available elevation data is ruining the Norwegian fjords so badly that there`s no hope for them anyway, and there is so many fjords and islands in my country, that I would never be able to reach all of them. I only edit the coastlines for a fjord or two near the airport, the rest I just have to forget :(But I got a promising answer from SRTM Germany, and they are going to send me brand new DTED-1 data for trials. If the slicer eats this, I am going to pay EUR 400.- for Norwegian coverage straight away!

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Roger:Here's what I did to edit Fly! Coastline data:- Start TerraShape- Go to Project > New Project- Enter the xxx and zzz coordinates and press the Create button- Go to Fly! Data > Extract Coastline data- Go to DXF > Export Coastline data to a DXF file- Using TurboCAD LE (Learning Edition) I opened the V??????.dxf file (where ?????? is the x,z coordinates of the global tile you're working on) and modified some of the polygons, and added a node to ee if it worked.- Saved the v??????.dxf file (no R12, R14, etc. settings necessary - there are no options).- Switch to Terrashape- Go to DXF Extract Coastline layer to Fly! format- This will create a file named new.gtp- Create a folder within the fly!II folder called coast- Copy the new.gtp file to this folder and rename the file to v??????.gtp- Start Fly!, teleport to that area and... voila! the changes will be there and the ground will be as hard as a rock: no more sinking!!!Let me know if you get stuck somewhere along the process.Good luck!Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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Roger, Alex et alI think that the GTP anomolies are fixed now.I've just created, edited etc a gtp file with both AutoCAD and TurboCAD LE.I converted both output files back to Fly! gtp files and doing a byte compare showed then to be identical.I can't test them in Fly! right now at work, but the AutoCAD version worked OK before, therefore so should the TurboCAD ones now.(Says he, with great confidence :) )Give the new build a try, and let me know either way.Colin

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G'day Alejandro, >>Here's what I did to edit Fly! Coastline data: >>- Start TerraShape >- Go to Project > New Project >- Enter the xxx and zzz coordinates and press the Create >button >- Go to Fly! Data > Extract Coastline data >- Go to DXF > Export Coastline data to a DXF file >- Using TurboCAD LE (Learning Edition) I opened the >V??????.dxf file (where ?????? is the x,z coordinates of the >global tile you're working on) and modified some of the >polygons, and added a node to ee if it worked. >- Saved the v??????.dxf file (no R12, R14, etc. settings >necessary - there are no options). >- Switch to Terrashape >- Go to DXF Extract Coastline layer to Fly! format >- This will create a file named new.gtp >- Create a folder within the fly!II folder called coast >- Copy the new.gtp file to this folder and rename the file >to v??????.gtpOh dear! not looking good. :-( So far this is exactly what I did :-) >- Start Fly!, teleport to that area and... voila! the >changes will be there and the ground will be as hard as a >rock: no more sinking!!! and Start Fly! - Unfortunately Fly! crashes to desktop at the helicopter loading screen. If I remove the offending gtp file from coast folder Fly!II works fine.>Let me know if you get stuck somewhere along the process. > A thought just occurred to me; Maybe the groundtile that you modified behaved itself and you haven't been involved with any of the spurious polygons. :-)Could you please do me a favour and see if you can achieve the modification of ground tile 107102 With my obscession to get Sydney fixed I haven't attempted to alter any other groundtile. Maybe it's the conversion of data within this particular groundtile that is causing my problem.My problem is NOT cad related. I can't use terrashape to create a V??????.dxf file and then immediately use terrashape to convert the same dxf file successfully back to a working gtp file! Thanks for the suggestions and help.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Just discovering this thread...Thanks a lot Colin for having solved this problem!I can now use TurboCAD LE (I was using TurboCAD V6 but it is free only during a limited period..) ;) I am currently modifying coastline data for adding rivers. I am exactly doing what Alejandro described, and this works well.:-cool Nevertheless, I don't understand the method Colin described to add rivers with Terrashape: do you mean adding rivers without modifying coasts (and without using Terrascene producing HUGE files)? This could interest me if the result is better...Regards,Jeck

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G'day Jeck,Great to hear terrashape is working for you modifying coastlines. I'm still having problems. :-( Would you please post confirming your operating system. I'm using Win 98 SE and so far only Win XP users have posted success.Rivers may be added using shapefiles but you still need to process the shapefiles through Terrascene. Shapefiles are simply the data files that those of us outside of USA use in conjuction with Terrascene. Generally speaking the data within shapefiles is unfortunately not that accurate. Terrashape gives us the ability to modify the shapefile data in a Cad program.You appear to be doing it the way I think would give excellent results. Use Terrashape to modify the coastline gtp file to give an accurate bay/estuary as far inland until the river actually starts and then use a shapefile to plot the path of the river. The appearance of the river would depend on how you map the shapefile within Terrascene. And of course if you want "real water" (the sort an aircraft will sink in - not just painted) you would have to use Elrond's ground type transformer program to change the underlying ground tile attribute (for all the tiles the river flows over) from land to water.I hope the above helps. Re-read Colin post as he explains all of the above far better than me ( but he has inside information :-) ) I'm green with envy :-)Cheers,Roger

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G'day Roger,Sorry to hear that you are still having problems.I really don't see how it can be an OS issue even though I can't test on 98 any longer.AutoCAD etc. works fine on 98 (from past experience)TurboCAD LE should also work fine given the age of the program.There *should* be no reason for TerraShape not to work on 98. The fact that you have made dxf files from shapefiles and gtp files shows that TerraShape is working.The re-conversion back to shapefiles and gtp files is simply the reverse procedure, i.e. converting double precision or float values in text form from the dxf file back into binary form for the shapefiles and Fly! gtp files.In theory all the math etc. is handled by the Borland routines not the OS, so if it works one way, it must work the other.Can you send me your edited dxf with the coastline polys and I'll try it out on my machine.CheersColin

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Roger,Just gave it a try but got carried away with modifying the coast. I got a CTD after teleporting to YSSY.There must be either a limit on vertex per tile or it must be very jealous when it comes to overlapping tiles. I'm going to try making a minor change to the coast to see if it does it.The same happened to me trying to modify SABE, I added polygons, and got really carried away with the changes... sure enough, it didn't work. I went back and only made changes to the nodes within a tile, didn't add anything, didn't have to overlap anything and it worked just fine.I'll keep playing around starting next week and will let you know.Take care,Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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G'day Colin, Thanks for posting, I have noticed another strange thing.When Terrascene creates a gtp file with windows explorer minimised; as I open explorer the new.gtp file is displayed as 0 KB. If I refresh explorer OR copy the new.gtp file to another folder it then displays as 63 KB. A similar anomally occurs with the dxf files as well. That explains why I thought I was sending a 747 KB dxf file to you and you were saying it was only 2 KB. >Can you send me your edited dxf with the coastline polys and >I'll try it out on my machine. Ah great minds think alike :-)Just prior to logging on to the forum I sent you a swag of files that I hope might help you see what my problem is.BTW The email address for Rob Westhouse didn't work. Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Bonjour Roger,Sorry, but my OS is Win XP too! This doesn't bring additionnal information for your problem:-roll Thanks for your explanation about adding rivers with Terrashape. Actually I already tried this method, but it does not cover my need: I want to add rivers without modifying generic textures all around - and the generic textures I use are not used by Terrascene (they are ROTW textures).So I modify coasts to add rivers: this way, rivers are seen by Fly2 as an arm of the sea. The HUGE advantage of this method is the weight of created files: 40Ko par Tile, whereas Terrascene creates (as far as I know..) 40Mo files per Tile!(-: And I can keep on having the french generic textures all around the river.Great thanks again to Colin for having allowed this method with Terrashape!Regards,Jeck

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