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Sydney 444 MB.............now what??

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Hi RogerI was looking forward to your YSSY scenery.I live in Cairns QLD.I would be happy to buy a CD if that is OK with you.Looking forward to it.Does it iclude Vin's excellent models of the harbour bridge and the opera house?Kind RegardsAlfred

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G'day Alfred,And Alfred makes three. :-)Mate so long as my aging old bones draw breath there will never be a charge ( no matter how it is attempted to be justified) for any of my work for Fly!II. This is my hobby, not a second job. I'm only too pleased that you deem it worthy of hard disk space.Now to the nitty gritty. I haven't included any models in the scenery. I only started this about 3 months ago and the sole reason was to get rid of the water traps. I never intended it to be a scenery but rather a fix. However one thing lead to another and basically I was testing out Terrashape and Terrascene capabilities for non USA countries. Any attempt to add models will just further delay the release. I know that Vinny did models for Danny Vickers and I don't want to tread on any toes so I didn't persue the matter. Anyway got to leave something to allow people to personalise their sceneries. :-)Email me your postal addressrogermaz@idx.com.auCheers,Roger @YSSY

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Roger,Congratulations!Don't know if the following pictures will help but I know you'll like them:http://members.cox.net/fly_2/yssy/DSCF0034.JPGhttp://members.cox.net/fly_2/yssy/DSCF0036.JPGhttp://members.cox.net/fly_2/yssy/DSCF0037.JPGhttp://members.cox.net/fly_2/yssy/DSCF0038.JPGhttp://members.cox.net/fly_2/yssy/DSCF0039.JPGhttp://members.cox.net/fly_2/yssy/DSCF0040.JPGEnjoy!Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce4 Ti4600 8xAGP 128MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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G'day Alejandro,What can I say.... beeaauuuutifuul.I've saved these images to disk as I am seriously thinking of doing the whole project again in much greater accuracy and detail. The pics will certainly be invaluable then.These shots appear to be taken from a helicopter...... were you the lucky Photographer?Thanks very much for posting......really nice piccies; much appreciated.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Roger,Glad to know you liked them.These shots were taken by a friend of mine from the cockpit of an Airbus 340 going from Auckland to Sydney.Take care,Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce4 Ti4600 8xAGP 128MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

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G'day Randall,Million apologies, I hadn't seen your post. Been too busy copying to CD's for a couple of people.I haven't zipped the files but even assuming 50% that would still leave 200 + MB. My project is basicallly terrascened using shapefiles some of which were hand modified and then hand painting the resultant *.tga ( 794.5 MB ). The water mask was also hand painted by overlaying it over the tga file. Roads were also hand painted as were the beaches and four airports. As I see it there is no way I can give the end user a basic set of building blocks and get him to come up with the scenery.If you expect the end user to be able to do all the terrascening then being in possesion of all the skills why wouldn't he do it off his own accord? There would be no need for scenery designers. What is needed is a method of getting the scenery to the users who just don't have a clue! Giving instructions I fear would only end up causing a whole mass of posts re "why doesn't my downloaded scenery work?"I am against any form of payware for scenery ( at least my scenery ).This is my hobby and the hours I spend at the computer is my choice. I'm an absolute stickler for the freeware concept. Once you start down the cost recovery road there is no end to it...... just look at the banks :-lolWhen I see the beautiful aircraft produced by ROTW for free I cringe at the thought of expecting people to pay for scenery.I made my scenery basically for myself and am willing to share with anyone who REALLY WANTS it. If you put things into perpective most people don't hesitate to shout a round of beers on a friday night. So I'm prepared to shout a few CD's a week if people want my scenery.I only expect that a handful would be interested anyway!Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Roger,A few thoughts:>My project is basicallly terrascened using shapefiles some >of which were hand modified and then hand painting the >resultant *.tga ( 794.5 MB ). The water mask was also hand >painted by overlaying it over the tga file. Roads were also >hand painted as were the beaches and four airports. As I >see it there is no way I can give the end user a basic set >of building blocks and get him to come up with the scenery. I am supplying complete water masks with all uploaded TS project packs, as the watermask files compress down to a very small size (being basically 2 colors, black and white, or at the most black and white with a few shades of grey if shoals, etc. were added).>If you expect the end user to be able to do all the >terrascening then being in possesion of all the skills why >wouldn't he do it off his own accord? There would be no need >for scenery designers.I agree to a point, but the basic operation of TerraScene (especially if most files and data are automatically loaded in the proper place) is something that anyone can do. By forcing people to use it they find out how easy it is to use, and in many cases, begin to crank out some of their own.Now, that doesn't take away from special projects or add-ons that go beyond basic TerraScene creation. Many people just don't have the patience to do custom editing - by providing the edited shapefiles, added shapefiles for updates, custom water masks, etc., we are helping people receive our artistic endeavors, yet remove the problem of huge (and in many cases, plain impossible) downloads of finished scenery. My Tampa package (with added shapefiles to replace missing land-use data, custom water mask, etc.) has now been downloaded 100 times at a size of 31 MB with all data included.I am now finishing a global tile south of detroit that required two sets of added shapefiles, a custom watermask and some editing on 1/25 of the day TGAs. I will experiment with some compression and image file conversion for that one area and we'll see what happens. If I can get an end user to set up TerraScene properly so that the same small image file sizes are generated, then I can still make an acceptable package by including the edited, compressed small image areas. When they check "generate" and "use existing", the edited areas will be added to the whole automatically during rendering.In your case, you probably edited every area of the tile, so either the images will need to be converted and reconverted by the end-user, or you will have to somehow provide finished scenery on-disk.>I am against any form of payware for scenery ( at least my >scenery ). >This is my hobby and the hours I spend at the computer is my >choice. >I'm an absolute stickler for the freeware concept. Once you >start down the cost recovery road there is no end to >it...... just look at the banks :-lol I don't see paying for distribution of finished sceneries in the Avsim store (where I would get zilch for it) as a payware situation. My sceneries are for free. I'm also willing to absorb the cost of the creation, packaging and mailing of the original package, etc. But, I don't have the time to personally take hundreds of orders nor am I willing to make personal expenditures in production, packaging and shipping for that amount of people. The manufacture and shipping of that many scenery sets whereby the end-user is only covering materials, shipping, and handling keeps the costs down and resolves a lot of issues.My 2 cents... :-)

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Randall, I think the guy , Said he was not charging for the scenery. And your qouting him , Like he is charging for it, What`s the prob?Jeff

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Jeff,No, go back and read it. I'm saying we may need to have distribution and ordering systems costs covered, or not too many people will ever get our scenery. I'm also a freeware producer (I'm not making anything from this, nor do I want to). The problem is the files are far too large for normal File Library storage (or bandwidth, for that matter!), and as wonderful as Roger is for offering to produce disks and send them throughout the world, I just wonder if that will work.I'm not dissing Roger - I think he's a wonderful part of the Fly! family (and I certainly hope he understands I feel that way). I bet he's put 100s of hours into this work!Hey Roger - if you're ready to ship, I'd love to get a copy! Drop me a message at the e-mail below and let's work out an exchange - I'll send you the complete Ohio project on disks (14 global tiles) when it's finished!Jeff, I'm just concerned that all the great intentions of freeware artists (including myself) won't cover the costs of getting the scenery out. I'm trying to open discussion on the possibility that a store (like Avsim) "selling" our freeware work at cost would still be freeware if there was no profit involved. Otherwise, we need to be willing to provide scenery packages that people can generate themselves but still include our creative work. Those projects can still be carried by the File Library because they would be much smaller.Capvideo@columbus.rr.com

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Randall; Great Idea, Many Appoligies to those I may have Dissed Jeff

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G'day all,Well I've finally got my project finished. :-) A lot of blood, sweat and tears went into this but as it now makes Sydney totally usable whereas before it was almost unuseable I think it was well worth the effort.The whole project would not have been possible without Terrashape and the assistance of forum members who answered some newbie questions and gave me encouragement. The reason for this project was to cure the watery runways/taxiways of yssy airport. Consequently the textures used are the generic tri textures just with a little modification. Nothing marveleous, but it just adds a little interest to the basic terrascene. Being outside USA the only data we have is shapefiles which unfortunately do not have the amount of detail data available for continental USA. The reason for this post is where do I go from here? I have a scenery of such large proportions (444 MB). I'm only on a 56K dial-up modem ( 6min/MB ) so 43 hour uploads to the library are not on and I'm sure Tom might have a few words to say about 1/2 Gigabyte files as well :-)OK I'm all ears. Anyone got any bright ideas on how to distribute/make available such large scenery files to the forum.ie. assuming that someone on the forum actually wants the scenery. :-)I can only think of burning them to CD and mailing them. I doubt that many would actually want Sydney as there are only a handfull of Aussies active on the forum. It's getting them to the non aussies and the casual perusers of the forum that's the problem.Anyway just a couple of screenies to show what it's like.Cheers,Roger @ (solid as the rock of Gibralta :-) ) YSSY

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