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Roger Mazengarb

Help with ........textures

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G'day all, Finally starting to feel a little better with the "black art" :-) but just a few simple questions.1. If I assign a texture to a small part ( eg. pitot probe ) by object in 3ds max, then when I select to render the scene, a "missing mapping co-ordinates" warning box appears but max still renders the part OK. Is this acceptable to the Fly! editor or MUST all parts be mapped! ??2. Sometimes, not always, when I map a suface and apply the texture, the texture is applied to BOTH sides of the surface and not just the side that I have selected? I checked to make sure that I only have the one side selected.? Any ideas as to what my problem might be?3. If a single face of a surface is somehow not textured. Will this crash the Fly! editor or will it apply a generic texture in it's place.??4. I've just started animating. At present I set 0 - 30 frames along the frame counter and have animated the elevators and rudder / tailwheel so that everything all works together. It appears I have just the one animation file! Is this correct or should each surface have it's own animation file.??5. I now want to animate the flaps. I can set keyframes at the intermediate selections but how do I SLOW DOWN the speed of movement of just the flaps without affecting the rudder and elevators. OR does Fly! II handle the speed of movement??6. Is frame 0 ; flaps up or flaps down.7. to animate the props do I link the blades to the spinner and then animate the spinner???Thanks for taking the time to read my woes :-)All help greatly appreciated.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Hi, Roger . It's good to see that you're making progress. I will confess that my success has been, at times, accidental. So, my comments to your questions may not be "expert". Yes, all parts need to be uv mapped. I simply click the part in edit mesh "elements",( it should appear all red) apply uv unwrap( not uvmap), then in edit I create the planar "map", for example top/bottom for a wing, or left/right for the fuselage, and then with texporter I create the bmp file to which then I apply the texture. When you apply this texture in the material editor, the part will get its correct texture. This method will prevent the missing coordinate when rendering.tony

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Hi, Roger . It's good to see that you're making progress. I will confess that my success has been, at times, accidental. So, my comments to your questions may not be "expert". Yes, all parts need to be uv mapped. I simply click the part in edit mesh "elements",( it should appear all red) apply uv unwrap( not uvmap), then in edit I create the planar "map", for example top/bottom for a wing, or left/right for the fuselage, and then with texporter I create the bmp file to which then I apply the texture. When you apply this texture in the material editor, the part will get its correct texture. This method will prevent the missing coordinate when rendering. If you don't have mapping coordinates for all objects, the fly editor will accept it.2. read no 1.3. no4. I am not sure what you mean, but I simply animate and save it as a 3dmax file. When I am done animating, I use the latest saved file and things seem ok. The animation of each part is more dependend, however, on the "affect pivot" in the Hierchy mode. When you work with this feature, your are essentially creating "animation" code that is rmemebered in 3dmax until you erase all animation references to that part.5. I think this is a *.wng issue. In this file there is a parameter that allows you to control the speed of this part. I will check. I am sure that this can be done in 3d max as well, but I don't know.6. FLY2 gives you the ability to reverse direction. with flaps I've use 0 for 0 and 30 for full flaps and things look ok.7. I think so, but I don't remember.tonytony

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Hi Roger,I'll give it a try......1)It's better that all parts are mapped (and make sure they have a UVW map applied) but it won't crash Fly!2)select a surface of that part, map it, apply the UVW map, and after this you can render to see if it's right. Now you do the other side but make sure you transform the part into editable mesh!!! then the previous applied UVW map won't get distorted. Now you can safely do the other side.3)Won't crash fly! it will probably display the complete TIF on that particular surface.4)Animate everything in the same Scene file ( don't know what you mend with animation file)5) Fly! does it for you, just animate the complete flap travel from frame 0 to 306)frame 0 must be flaps up, otherwise fly loads the aircraft with flaps down (same for the gear, gear must be down at frame 0)7)blades to spinner, spinner to body (animate the rotating of the prop by the spinner and animate the blades induvidual for course or fine control)Take care and good luck! show some pics when the time is there

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G'day Tony,Thanks for your reply. I've been so tied up in knots lately with 3dsmax it's not funny. The more confused I get the worse 3dsmax behaves until finally it just goes beserk and I have to reboot and start afresh with the latest saved file. It's taught me one important lesson. Always back up my work! :-)From your reply it appears that there are more ways to texture an aircraft than there are to skin the proverbial cat! I've got 90% of it done and have never used unwrap UVW. I started following Jeans tutorial and he makes no mention of it.I have made several static models and imported them into Fly! II without doing any mapping as well. Just texture by object. It seems to me to be silly trying to map pitot probes and interplane rigging wires if Fly! will simply take a base colour and texture the object.Anyway I'm cruising along slowly getting near to the stage where I will be attempting to get the model into Fly! II. I'll post some progress pics ( a stablemate for the L-10 ) in a new thread.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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G'day Jarno,Thanks for your reply to my questions. I'm slowly getting the hang of things.2./ Not 100% following you re converting to editable mesh? Isn't all mesh editable? I've applied bitmaps to both sides of the fuselage and didn't notice any distortion of note. I did notice some texture shearing I think but I put tha down to the flat bitmap being applied to the curved fuselage. Do you mean that I should map and apply a texture to one side and then convert to an editable mesh before doing the same to the other side?Thanks for the info, I'll now go off and do some more animations.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Hi, Roger. It's definitely a steep learning curve for us--non graphic artist fly2 afecionados.Of all the challenges I've encountered regarding this project, testuring has been the most daunting. One, as you say, there are more than one way.If I go straight to uv unwrap, it's because I don't need to use that infamous "gizmo" and turn one image upside down or upside up, you when you're dealing with a wing's top and bottom. My approach gives me both sides, to which I add texture and there's no need to worry about the "infamous orientation" of the gizmos. I tried following Jeans tutorial, but after twenty or so different ways to "skin" the plane, this is the one for dummies like me. Let me know if you need any more help. I've taken msfs textures, and with the author's permission, I've used to paint the l-10. I wanted to concentrate on the building aspects and not on the "painting" side.cheers,tony

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I will let Jarno answer, but all of your mapping work should be done in the "edible mesh" mode. tony

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g'day Tony,>Hi, Roger. It's definitely a steep learning curve for us--non>graphic artist fly2 afecionados.I think you've hit the nail on the head here! I think it's my basic lack of understanding of the fundamentals of 3D texturing that is causing all my problems. Jarno mentioned that I should convert to an editable mesh. I have found a command for that but ever since I put the first primative cylinder on the screen and started to model the aircraft haven't I been using an editable mesh??? I have been using edit mesh all the time to make my model!!I'm starting to feel like a trained monkey! :-) going through the motions to achieve a goal but not having a clue as to what or why I am doing any particular process; just knowing that at the end of it all I receive a banana as a reward :-lol . (so to speak) >Of all the challenges I've encountered regarding this project,>testuring has been the most daunting. One, as you say, there>are more than one way.This is the whole point! There is more than one way to texture and when a newbie starts reading tutorials it becomes as confusing as all heck! I guess the trick is to follow just one tutorial; after the first successful model one can then look at alternative methods.>If I go straight to uv unwrap, it's because I don't need to>use that infamous "gizmo" and turn one image upside down or>upside up, you when you're dealing with a wing's top and>bottom. I've done a few repaints and the concept of reverse textures is not a turn off for me! Besides it is really easy to flip the Gizmo/texture if required.>My approach gives me both sides, to which I add texture and>there's no need to worry about the "infamous orientation" of>the gizmos. > I wanted to concentrate on the>building aspects and not on the "painting" side.Building is a lot easier to comprehend; it's actually logical. :-)cheers,Roger

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Roger,One other thing that I have found very difficult is to fix broken edges or polygons. Anyway, I do go through periods of great excitement and depression. I have not touched the "graphics" for several weeks, but I have worked on refining the flight model and the cockpit layout. I am also realizing that to give birth to a FLY2 aircraft is an act of compromise--unless one is as talented and driven as the folks who have produced the SEneca.tony

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Hi Roger,If a part (allready in the editable mesh mode) needs multiply textures, then everytime you applied the UVW map to the surface of that textured part you needed it to convert it into editable mesh again. otherwise the last texture you applied while cover the complete part and you have to start over again!

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G'day Tony,First up very nice pics. The L-10 will be a great addition to Fly! II. Keep plugging away as you must be very close to a release version. I'm still slowly moving ahead but not being a programmer is going to make it real tough from here on in. As if it hasn't been tough enough already. :-)>>One other thing that I have found very difficult is to fix>broken edges or polygons.This is really not that difficult. Sometimes after doing a boolean cut or some other work on the model I would find that an edge would simply disappear from a polygon. If that happens then selectedit meshedge modeand then just click with the mouse where the edge used to be and it appears.then select make visible.If you lose a polygon, ie. when you render the polygon is jet black then it's possible that you may have inverted the face normal and therefore it doesn't render.select edit meshselect polygon modeSelect the polygon that doesn't renderthen in one of the roll outs is a button "FLIP". Press this and the face normal of the polygon is flipped over to the other side.The polygon will now render.If you have the vertices and no face (eg. when you cut a flight control out of the wing) then you can create a polygon using those vertices.select edit meshselect polygon modeselect createthen use mouse to click on vertices in sequence IN ANTI CLOCKWISE DOR.EVERY TIME YOU MODIFY THE MODEL YOU MUST REMAP THE TEXTURE.Don't know if any of the above is any help as like you I really have no expertise with max. Just trial and error button pushing.> Anyway, I do go through periods of>great excitement and depression. I have not touched the>"graphics" for several weeks, but I have worked on refining>the flight model and the cockpit layout. I am also realizing>that to give birth to a FLY2 aircraft is an act of>compromise--unless one is as talented and driven as the folks>who have produced the SEneca. Take a break. Rome wasn't built in a day. About 8 people were involved in the production of the Seneca; you're doing it all on your own. Of course there are compromises. Even in the real world of aviation aircraft design is full of compromise. I can remember back when I was using FS 95 :-) I had a Super Connie L-1049 that had a Cessna panel modified with 4 throttles. I was as happy as a pig in **** just flying that beast.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

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G'day Jarno,Aha! That explains a few things. Thanks very much for the explaination. Now I know why both sides of my flaps have the same texture.Thanks and cheers,Roger @YSSY

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Those are very much needed tips and advice. I will take them all! Thank you, Roger.tony

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