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Guest andy9164

Texture mapping

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Time for some more help please with modelling.Firstly, several people have given me some great help with modelling, particularly Rob Driscoll and Angsar but I am struggling to grip texture mapping.(0,1),(1,1),(1,0) and all the other permutations.I grasp the theory that this allows you to manipulate the gif to fit the triangle in the way you want, and that each setting indicates a particular part of the gif for each vertex of the triangle. Sorry Rob, but I have read your documents many times, even drawing out the examples, but I still don't get it. Also, repetition of gifs in a model. Saving typing in many more points, parts, mapping, it is possible to specify the repetition of a texture.....sorry don't get this either.Please can someone give me an idiots guide to help me.Bt the way, Lydd airport is growing everyday and will be out for beta testing soon.Thanksandy

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Like Ansgar I would love to help more - not that I understand it myself since I have worked things out by trial and error, not by being properly taught, and maybe that's why my tutorials don't make sense.I suggest you try this. Make an object which is a flat triangle, egPOINTS{10,0,00,0,00,10,0}Using a simple picture as your source GIF, make a MIP that you can map to this triangle - or use an existing MIP. Identify it as a DBL ("double", to avoid problems of which side gets textured):MATERIALS{1,"TEXTURE",FLAT,TMAP "MYPIC.MIP",100,TRANSP 100,DBL;}Define your triangle object:PARTS{4,N,0, 1,(0,1,2) }Now try mapping the MIP to your triangle. Note that in mapping,(0,1) points to the top left corner of your picture,(0,0) to the bottom left corner,(1,0) to the bottom right,(1,1) to the top right and(0.5,0.5) points to the centre of your picture.Try this mapping first:PART_MAPPINGS {0,(0,1),(0,0),(1,0)}Build this and look at it. How was the picture drawn?Now change the mapping as follows:PART_MAPPINGS {0,(1,0),(0,0),(0,1)}and build.What effect did this have?Now try this:PART_MAPPINGS {0,(0,0.5),(0,0),(0.5,0)}Again compare with the original mapping after compiling. You should see a "zoom-in" effect towards the botttom left-hand corner.I hope this help explains the mapping bit. In the same way, textures can be repeated (with some limits). Try this:PART_MAPPINGS {0,(0,2),(0,0),(2,0)}andPART_MAPPINGS {0,(0,2),(0,0),(1,0)}For repeat textures to work, the GIF image should only be used for a single purpose in the direction of repeating. Example: if left half of GIF is blue and right half is red, then if I repeat in the x-direction I will get blue/red alternating. I cannot select to repeat a smaller unit in the x-direction.That's getting hard to explain again. Just experiment using the simplest objects, and I hope it all becomes clearer. Email me:R.Driscoll@unsw.edu.auand I can answer your more detailed questions one by one, maybe with examples.Good luck Andy!RobD.

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Rob,Thanks for this an also for the other mips.After spending many hours (nearly all day ) yesterday it took the simplistic intelligence of my 9 year old son to explain to me how to manipulate the textures. Maybe I was looking a little too deeply, but was "told" that:"if you turn the picture round in the triangle then the numbers you have on the corners of your picture 0,1 0,0 1,1 are in a different place in the triangle. So why don't you just change them numbers (in the parts mapping) to what they are now". So I did, and managed to rotate the texture through 90 degrees etc. so now I, sorry, my son, knows how to map textures, and so do I. I also did something similar to what you suggested and built a basic 2-d model ie a runway. I've since found out from your comments why I was getting a mirror image, I was obviously mapping on the wrong side and have now been able to map 10 of the same texture horizontally over a distance of 600m. Just need to work out how to do it vertically as I am "tailor making" all the runways / taxiways so that I dont get the problem of having to overlay models and suffering from which model lays over the other syndrome.Its taking time, but learning and enjoying. I won't set a date yet for the release as complaints come raining in when I lock myself away for hours on an evening. :-lolThanks for all your help (again)Andy

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Hey Ansgar, I've got anim8or and iMage and lots of goodies. But I don't know how to use them! I can only make models using pen and paper. - drawing them, identifying points, using my hand-held calculator to work out distances, then start writing the "e-file". That's why I make simple models, and you make planes!But Andy, listen to Ansgar - in the long run its better to use the professional tools, so that you can make curved surfaces etc. My method is OK for runways and square buildings and simple shapes, but inefficient for more complex shapes. But I can't help you there!But don't try and change me - I'm too busy cutting down trees to sharpen my axe!!Anyway (defensively), for me the 3D model takes about the same time as getting the textures, shaping, colouring, blending, etc.RobD.

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Hi Ansgar,I'm with you on this one. I've spent most of the weekend and the whole of this evening trying to create something as simple as a runway by hand-editing the .e files. As of this moment I have something not unlike a kilometre-long sawblade with the wrong textures. I really think I'm going to have to try this again in 3DStudio...Cheers,Rich.

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Rich,You mean you HAVE 3DS and you're still persevering with efiles? Good on you! Actually, I take Rob's point here. I 'cut my teeth' on efiles (which is why they're all jagged and broken...) and, given a simple item like a 2D object, I find I can visualise it, scribble out an efile, run it and have the model ready very quickly. It also gives you a great insight as to how 3D files work because, believe it or not, strip the headers and stuff from many 3D formats and what you have is an efile!Sure you can run 3DS/Anim8or/Autocad etc but they're really better for '3D' objects. Being able to pan and zoom around, place hundreds of textures etc is not actually necessary or even warranted (IMHO) for simple models. If I want to know that the runway is exactly 1 inch off the ground I edit the efile anyway (many of my early Anim8or and Gmax creations floated in the air or were the wrong size). Starting with dimensions (as in the efile) guarantees success ;)That said. I have no idea how Rob managed to build Parliament House :-eekAnother 'trick' I use is to grab existing models, run 'bintoe.exe' then 'eto3ds.exe', drag them into a 3DS editor and modify them. Either way, by learning about efiles first, your 3D experiences will be more rewarding!PS ALL my models (except gliders) were/are done as efiles. Of course, with ~1800 polygons, I use a 3D editor for planes BUT I still have to edit the efiles, especially when BSP falls over :-( This is another reason to like efiles - BSP likes simple inputs ;):-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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And to conclude this topic........Yes, I am editing the e-files direct. From my first attempt I found this much easier to understand for a 2-d model, ie runway, particularly as Rob had some "prepared" e-fils which all I had to do was modify the lenghts plus a couple of gif's for the numbers.My problem came when the created gif was a different way round and I had to rotate it. I have this bit now (thanks to my son). The multiple mapping will just save me having to enter multiple points, and I nearly have this now through trial and error. I can map half of my square (2 triangle) several times, and just need to work out how to do the same on the other half.I have downloaded anim8 from the library but ??? have not really got to grips to it. So for now, I will edit my e-files to make the runways and taxiways and "borrow" other peoples models for my airport.Thanks to everyone for their ideas and suggestions.Keep modelling.Andy

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Four days it took me. Four whole days to tarmac the runway and I'm still not happy about it. At this rate I'll be finished by 2007 :-)Rich.

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Rich, if you want to send me what you have so far I would be happy to make suggestions - just zip up your current work directory, send it to me at R.Driscoll@unsw.edu.au, and I will send it back asap with comments. As I said, I have made every mistake in the book and invented a few new ones, and I may be able to spot things that could save you time.RobD.

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Hi Rob,Thanks for the offer but I think I've cracked how it all works now. I've got all my textures in place, on the right side of the model and aligned correctly. All I have to do now is some fiddling with the geometry to make the thresholds align correctly with those on the aerial photos and probably redo the textures I created for the runway numbers.Cheers,Rich.

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Rich,I can fully simpathise with the frustration, but believe me, once you have it cracked it gets a lot lot easier. Thanks to Rob, we have some good runway and taxiway textures and I find I can now get a basic runway / taxiway down in around 30 minutes, then there's the additional tweaking for length / runway numbers.Check in Robs runways package (in the file library) as there are already a large amount of runway numbers done and if you need some doing, likewise I can help, I use Photoshop and can create new ones in around 5 mins.I have done 04, 32, 22, 18 already, based on Robs textures and also have a runway segment with a large white "X" (Emergency Use Only) for a disused runway I have at Lydd Airport.(Under development)I havent published them yet as I was going to do this when I released my airport, but will gladly send them if you want them.Andy

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Andy, Could you do me a 09/27 (for Bristol) as I am currently using the default 09R/27L as I had some trouble when changing ( I think it was with fixmip) a while backCheers,QvdG

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Absolutely no problem at all, I will get these done before the weekend as I am on holiday next week (Yippee!!).Just need to ask, are you using Rob Driscoll Gif's from his runway package. ie the gifs named run11r0 etc. (See atached gif) and also what pallette do you want the mip in. San Fran or Seattle.Let me know as soon as and I will get them done.Andy

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