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Video Drivers and

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Does the video driver really make that much difference in getting the "blurries" ? I had a good setup (550 MHz, 512 MB, GeForce2 with 32 MB) with 23.11 drivers, upgraded to 28.32 by one of those automatic "software update" programs, and now I can't fly even the 172 over fairly simple landscape with getting the blurries very bad.Any comments (and yes, I am going back to the older drivers)?

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>Does the video driver really make that much difference in >getting the "blurries" ? I had a good setup (550 MHz, 512 >MB, GeForce4 with 16 MB) with 23.11 drivers, upgraded to >28.32 by one of those automatic "software update" programs, >and now I can't fly even the 172 over fairly simple >landscape with getting the blurries very bad. >Any comments (and yes, I am going back to the older >drivers)? A GF4 with just 16mb? :-lolPaul

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Dave,There comes a time when all the tweaking in the world cannot fix what is broken forever. Paul has posted great links above on tweaking that is productive. The drivers are a compromise...I have to always find a set that will make my diverse gaming taste happy...and what works for FS will sometimes not work with my other fancies.What you will find that as you upgrade CPU and Video Card then the performance will improve...as in my case with an AMD XP2100 and Leadtech GeForce 4 Ti4400...the difference is spectacular visually with an appreciable increase and sustainability in the frame rate department. Save your $$$$ for the most powerful CPU you can shamelessly buy. I finally broke down and succumbed and built a box just for FS2002. There I said it! Back to therapy!!!RegardsTony

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you've answered your own questionlike the doc said: if it hurts when you go that . . . don't go like that ;-)good to hear you still have your old drivers; apparently. they DO make a difference.Jake

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just a week or so ago i tried 4 different nvidia detonator's all self installing, and with my system [hp6545 ; celeron766; fsb66 ; 256sdram;19gd hdd ; win98se] as i've configured it , with comparison test [saved] flights, the 28.32's gave the best views/fps. but, thats only my setup. try a bunch, and see. it means lots of flying...:] tom t

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Yes, I agree. But the point I made is that with the older drivers, even with my minimal computer, I had good performance with no blurries except with the faster planes. I just wondered if there was some problem with the 28.32s that I did not know about.

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Dave; just go with what works. Go back to the older drivers. I'm running 5.16 Hercules drivers on a PIII800 with a GTS64 because I have a Hercules card and they work great. Most everything maxed out and no blurry problems at all. I won't change drivers till I really need too. That means when I buy something I really want and it won't work because of the drivers. Funny thing is I've never ran into that problem before. I've heard over and over again to avoid the NON-Manufacturer drivers. Theory seems to be that specific drivers made by the manufacturer for your card give better results and all the others are for speed and not necessarily quality. Same with AMD. Ask any computer repair man that's worth his salt and he'll tell you to avoid the entire AMD/Athlon scene like the plague. I just talked in person to a real computer expert yesterday about building me a machine. He said he would if I chose Pentium. He said further that the only thing AMD was good for was "competition" for Intel. I really wanted to buy him a beer.Currently running graphics at 1600x1200x16 at 20 fps:http://www.x-plane.org/users/mgdbottled/Graphics.jpg

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>Same with AMD. Ask any computer repair man that's worth his >salt and he'll tell you to avoid the entire AMD/Athlon scene >like the plague. I just talked in person to a real computer >expert yesterday about building me a machine. He said he >would if I chose Pentium. He said further that the only >thing AMD was good for was "competition" for Intel. I >really wanted to buy him a beer. ::(: I'm so tempted to rip you a new one for posting this drivel, but I'll *try* to act like a mature adult and instead I'll just tell you the above is flat-out wrong. There is nothing inherently wrong with AMD CPUs, and anyone that believes so doesn't know what they're talking about. There have been problems with 3rd party chipsets (namely VIA) in the past, but this does not equate to AMD CPUs being "bad" or not working properly. AMD CPUs are every bit as stable as Intel CPUs, and any REAL "computer expert" (to use your words) will tell you the same. It's sad that there are still people out there who actually believe the old myths about AMD CPUs... They (the myths) should've been debunked long ago. I'm not looking to start a flame war here and you're entitled to hold whatever opinion you wish, however wrong it may be. Max Cowgill

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I'm glad you didn't Max. Just expressing my opinion. Tell me one thing would you??? Explain to me why the AMDs are so rock bottom cheap in this capitalist country of ours if they're so great??? I don't need a lesson in economics!! I'm just puzzled that this alleged superior product sells for peanuts when the competition holds their heads and prices high!! I'm puzzled why the business community uses pentiums. Geez, guess it must be the customers who thru their purchasing power control the pricing. Guess if the AMDs were priced equally with the Pentiums that there'd be no demand and the company would go kaput??? I'm just glad that AMD is around to keep Intel pricing under control. If not for a cheap alternative product, we'd all be paying a grand or so for a Pentium and still using a PII450, I guess. So they do have their place; Just not in my machine!!!!!! Don't mean to start a fight or anything.

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I can just see the gleeful Intel marketeer reading this post! He's probably still chuckling while he tells his cubicle neighbor that his idea worked on at least this one guy! LOLThe pricing is about market segmentation, and the willingness of the customer to buy. the connection between price and product quality becomes less valid as the market place in question becomes more volitile. Much can be said about the product difference between Intel products and AMD. If your argument for one over the other includes any contribution from the marketing department (and that includes pricing) from either company then save your breath...these are the people whose skill is in keeping the consumer from having any valid unbiased information.Reading testing sites like Tomshardware.com or anandtech.com should provide better info. Tom Pabst was instrumental at pointing out the design flaw in the p3 1.13ghz processor last year. He also pointed out the limited overtemp protection in the AMD xpxxxx line...so it kindof boils down to....if you want to spend money for P4 it would be sensible because you want the advantages of the P4, and they appear to be better efficiency processing mpeg based applications, and better protection from thermal overload. If these features are not worth the money to you, then the logical choice is to buy the AMD product.There is truely no point in getting emotional about the choice, I'm entirely convinced there are folks at both companies that you wouldn't want your sister to marry. This isn't mom and dad, its not about my team or your team, its about high tech cutthoat competition. Both companies have made mistakes, both companies have hit home runs.My processors over the years:Intel 8086Intel 486 dx 33Intel Pentium 133 (Just after the famous Floating Point Error problem)AMD K2 400Intel Celeron 366 (oc to 550)Intel Celeron 566 (oc to 850)Intel Pentium 3 800AMD xp1700+Each product has provided me with performance that I considered reliable for its era.Bob Bernstein

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>I'm glad you didn't Max. Just expressing my opinion. Tell >me one thing would you??? Explain to me why the AMDs are so >rock bottom cheap in this capitalist country of ours if >they're so great??? I don't need a lesson in economics!! >I'm just puzzled that this alleged superior product sells >for peanuts when the competition holds their heads and >prices high!! I'm puzzled why the business community uses >pentiums. Geez, guess it must be the customers who thru >their purchasing power control the pricing. Guess if the >AMDs were priced equally with the Pentiums that there'd be >no demand and the company would go kaput??? I'm just glad >that AMD is around to keep Intel pricing under control. If >not for a cheap alternative product, we'd all be paying a >grand or so for a Pentium and still using a PII450, I guess. > So they do have their place; Just not in my machine!!!!!! >Don't mean to start a fight or anything. LOL, the fact that you even made the above statements regarding capitalism imply you don't *truly* understand how it works in this situation. Intel can demand such high prices because they essentially own the market and have for decades. OEM system builders and large businesses that use said systems are more likely to use Intel because *everyone* knows the Intel/Pentium name. Intel is also able to keep their prices high because of the relationships they have established with said companies, and the markup that comes with the Intel/Pentium name. On the other side of the coin, AMD is forced to keep their prices so comparatively low because they need to make their CPUs more attractive to a wider range of customers/businesses, i.e. more affordable than comparable Intel CPUs. Max Cowgill

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""I can just see the gleeful Intel marketeer reading this post! He's probably still chuckling while he tells his cubicle neighbor that his idea worked on at least this one guy! LOL""Well, you see bob, it's like this. I wait till AMD comes out with their new thorobread (sp) processor this fall. Then watch as the price on that Intel 2.53 533mhz processor drops from the current $682 to about $400; then I buy the Intel along with that new PC1066 ram and Ti4600 card. Now, who's laughing. I doubt there's any gleeful Intel marketeer with any ideas that are working except maybe on the impatient gamer with lots of money who could care less what things cost. Then I buy an Antec case with all the other goodies (all for less than $1500) and take the pieces down to my computer tech, tell him to overclock that processor to 2800 and he puts it all together for me in about an hour. I give him a hundred bucks and a case of beer and we fly FS2002 whilst drinking up the brew just to make sure all the kinks are worked out. Now, I don't know about you, but I see a serious flaw in that gleeful Intel marketeer's logic???? The main flaw is being predictable????As far as the market share analysis, being qualified to teach economics at a college level, you'd both get a "D" for that argument in my class. ((LOL, sipping on my morning coffee really needing to get back to work))

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>As far as the market share analysis, being qualified to >teach economics at a college level, you'd both get a "D" for >that argument in my class. Really? And what, prey-tell, is wrong with my argument? From an economic standpoint of course. No personal examples of why you buy Intel, as you keep resorting to. >""I can just see the gleeful Intel marketeer reading this >post! He's probably still chuckling while he tells his >cubicle neighbor that his idea worked on at least this one >guy! LOL"" >>Well, you see bob, it's like this. I wait till AMD comes >out with their new thorobread (sp) processor this fall. >Then watch as the price on that Intel 2.53 533mhz processor >drops from the current $682 to about $400; then I buy the >Intel along with that new PC1066 ram and Ti4600 card. Now, >who's laughing. I doubt there's any gleeful Intel marketeer >with any ideas that are working except maybe on the >impatient gamer with lots of money who could care less what >things cost. Then I buy an Antec case with all the other >goodies (all for less than $1500) and take the pieces down >to my computer tech, tell him to overclock that processor to >2800 and he puts it all together for me in about an hour. I >give him a hundred bucks and a case of beer and we fly >FS2002 whilst drinking up the brew just to make sure all the >kinks are worked out. Now, I don't know about you, but I >see a serious flaw in that gleeful Intel marketeer's >logic???? The main flaw is being predictable???? What do your future plans for buying a P4 system have to do with AMD CPUs being unstable? What does this have to do with the "why" of CPU pricing? You keep changing your argument and/or relating personal experiences. Personal experiences are useless in arguments, as they only relate to one person! I find the last line in your above argument to be extremely humorous. Of course it's predictable if you're talking about CPU prices dropping over time! LOL, everyone knows that. Whether it's an Intel or AMD CPU, its value is going to drop over time, regardless of market forces. That's just the way technology works; always has and always will. Even if AMD were to go out of business, Intel's CPU prices would still drop over time, as their investors wouldn't stand for market stagnation. Not only that but if Intel were to stagnate the market the Feds would come down on them pretty hard for being a monopoly. No matter what, new CPUs will be released, and prices of (older) CPUs will drop.BTW, it's Thoroughbred, and it's coming out in 5 days ;) Perhaps you were thinking of the Clawhammer which is to debut Q4 this year? This is for clarification purposes only, no need to say anything like "I don't give a crap about AMD blah blah blah."

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Your argument is unfocused and so confusing that I can only guess what your point is. You seem to be attempting to defend an association between a company and product quality based on something to do with prices, but beyond that its anyone's guess.It almost makes me wonder if I would indeed get a D- in your class. Reading your writing reminds me how dreadfully poor some college classes can be taught. If you teach your class like you write, I'd expect most students would do poorly.If you are for some reason rattled, and your writing and arguing style is really articulate, then this thread makes me wonder how relevant your course content is to the world of real companies.What College do you teach at? I'm truely interested. Seriously, please let me know what school you work for. I ask because right now I'm interested in how Unversities are preparing people for work. One of my best friends from my college days is now a professor at Penn State and has invited me to speak on the relevency of college preparation for application in the business world. You've clearly said "I don't know what I'm talking about", and yet my career has been a continuing string of decent success, we may be able to find some interesting disconnects between your curriculum and the needs of business.If you wish to investigate further, please email me your university affiliation. Although its easy to get, if you could include the business school department head's name and email or phone, that'd be awesome.Thanks in advance,Bob BernsteinEngineering ManagerSpectra Lux Corporation1-425-823-1801 ext 519bobb@spectralux.com

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Bob, I don't think Mr. Bottled is actually an Economics Professor. He only claimed to "being qualified to teach economics at a college level" which could really mean anything... But since this is the internet and Mr. Bottled prefers to remain anonymous (no name provided, no profile), it's pretty hard to qualify how credible his statement(s) truly are. I'm not attacking you personally Mr. Bottled, and I hope you take no offense at my statements. We simply seem to have a difference of opinion and I am expressing such.Max Cowgill

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Alright you guys, AMD is great. You win. I lose. Who cares. Enough with the personal stuff. I didn't say I taught economics. I just have a graduate degree in economics. So what. That was easy. I absolutely hated marketing classes. Boring, boring, boring. Maybe some day in my retirement years, I'll teach econ and business law at some community college somewhere and give out real "D"s. hehehe. That'd be fun!! If I could do it my way, that is. That'd be "show up for class and you get a "B". Consistently debate me during the lecture and prove me wrong and you get an "A". Convincing me that you've proved me wrong would be the hard part. No exams. No surprises". That's what a University needs. OK, I'd give a test at the end of the semester. Ten true or false questions that'll count for two percent of your grade. So both you guys would have to speak to wreck your grade. hehehe. LOL. Not really meaning it. In the mean time,I have to practice law for a living. Go ahead and call the State Bar of Michigan if you want to verify it. Ask to verify Richard A. Anderson P37796 as being an active attorney since 1985. Report your results back here if you wish. Been practicing law here for some seventeen years now. And you're right Bob, I don't pay any attention to my grammer (sp) or spelling whilst writing these posts. Not trying to impress anyone. So there!!!!!!! I do, however; take great care when drafting contracts for parties. That's what they pay me for. And I'm very good at what I do. Boy, say something bad about an AMD and they really get riled. Is that a word???

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that if by any chance the guy was being honest with his credentials and REALLY had something intelligent to say, it would be fun to find out. So far all he contributes is "duh...I love my intel..now lets drink beer...burp".One of my engineers used to love to razz me with how much he loved his intel, good naturedly, that was during my K62 400 era. He just bought himself an imac of all things, and now he wants to discuss how awesome his motorola processor is. We laughed about that. Many folks can't get past their own decisions to really speak about technical concepts objectively. Seems like lots of people like to tell you that the best (fill in here) is the (fill in here) cuz I just bought one and it "smokes". lolB

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Do you realize I never recommended one brand over another? Your comment that suggests I favor AMD is additional evidence that you haven't gotten past emotional brand loyalty. My entire message is to evaluate technical decisions on technical terms. If you don't want to take the time to do that, then at least stay out of discussions on which product is "bad" or "good".the "I'm right based on my obliquely referred to background" is a common but weak arguing technique. As soon as the discussion breaks down to "my degree is bigger than yours is" is when good logical discussion ends.What happened to point-counterpoint and lets all learn something. The idea that when threatened we pull out a flashy background (and they usually are stretched a bit, like me getting a D in ur class when you really mean ur a lawyer with an econ degree)is a sad technique cuz it can only be meant to shut off ideas from people that feel insecure about their background.Well, enjoy ur lawyering....back to business.Bob B

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