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Guest Quaxo

Please help! Huge slowdowns at IOW...

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Today I decided to take (finally) a short "relax" flight with the new Dash8. I started the sim at Bembridge. But as soon as I entered the cockpit, I noticed a very high performance drop (I got 8-10 fps, while I usually get 50 fps over clean terrain, and 25-30 fps above Heathrow.I tried changing aircraft: I had the same problem. So it's scenery-dependant.So I tried to remove the three un-textured static planes: no fix.Doing more experiments (mowing around in Zoar mode, looking down) I found that the slow down occurs when looking at places without any 3D models. For example, while looking at the meadow near the big hangar, near the static planes. So I thought that maybe I was missing some 3d model, which was called in the scenery package... So I copied the /Seattle and /Sanfran folders inside my UK FU3 install, but nothing changed.Any ideas? Why should an empty part of scenery cause so huge slowdowns?Cristian

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Cristian,Bembridge has a low too meadeam frame rate hit.My Bembridge is OK, I get 33.3 fps all over, and around Bembridge.Giv us a snap of exactly what meadow near the big hangar is giving you a big frame rate hit.glidernut.

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I just checked and I get a moderate slow-down. It's not bad but it's more than I would expect, judging from what I get with dense collections of objects in other locations. Actually, my current reference is my soon-to-be-relased "London heavy" package. This one will complement the London City package that Robert and I are working on. The idea is to make a moderately heavy airport package and put heavier stuff in another package that meshes with the main one. This way those who can take it all will keep both packages while those with a low-end system can skip the non-essential enhancements in the extra package.Anyway, the airports in the IOW package are not extremely heavy, despite being packed with good-looking objects. Maybe the elevation fix plays a role here? If you haven't got this part right it might possibly affect frame rates.Hans Petter

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Hi Quaxo,yes make a screenshot of the view then we can check what is missing. :-wave agtim

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Well, here's some screenshots to show my fps... The static AI planes are missing (except for the GeeBee) but as I said they weren't the problem. The GeeBee isn't the problem either, because if I move the view to have only it in sight, the slowdown doesn't occur.First shot: The "incriminated" meadow. 20 fps.http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/19641.jpgSecond shot: Same view, slightly moved to the right. Now the FPS is 62, that is what I get everywhere else (except on very flat places without models, where I can go as high as 100 fps).http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/19642.jpgThird shot: 12 fps...http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/19643.jpgFourth shot, 14 fps. Is there any missing model?http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/19644.jpgFifth shot: 30 fps. This is what I usually get over "not-too-complex" 3D scenery.http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/19645.jpgSo, what is wrong with my FU3? :-(Cristian

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Apart from the 3 aircraft you hav remooved, I can see nodiferance bitween your Bembridge and myn.I stil get 33.3 fps all over, and around Bembridge.That red meadow is empty, and has no particuler frame rate hit for me.Its got me bafeld.Try reinstalling the Fled models that cum with Bembridge.glidernut.

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Im sory foks, but I think I have just deleted Cristian,s snap-shots!!!"Well I carnt see them any mor".I should not be abel to delete them at all, let alone be foced to do so without knowing why or what thay was.When I tried to uplode my 1 snap-shot in the normal way, I kept geting an erer mesage saying that I had exeaded the alouwerbl number of filesthat I could uplode, and if I wanted to uplode another, I would hav todelete one or mor of the files presented to me in a dialog box I hav never seen bifor.I did not know what thees files was, but the only way I could proseedwith puting up my one snap-shot, was to do what I was directed to do bythis dialog box that kept geting in the way,And that was to delete thees files that I know nuthing about.I dont know what the dikins went rong.glidernut.

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I agree missing models is the most likely cause. If you load Chris' San Fran package without the tree models available, framerates drop very quickly. Did you use jtrees then delete them? Does the package use 'j' or 's' trees? Any trees? More generally, how can we make sure that all users have all models available? I have tried to include all required models with initial package uploads, but new models are being created so quickly, and old models upgraded, that it can become confusing. I think the easiest is for people to check against Glidernut's list of models, and possibly Cristian's next upgrade disk could be used to provide some order again.

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Rob, I don't know what models should be there. Is there a way to see the called models of a package? I mean, a list of all the placed models? That way we could easily see if something (some file) is missing.I agree that there is some confusion now. Different AI plans, different models collections, and it's difficult to keep everything updated. In fact, I already thought about "cleaning" things with a new update disc. But I thought it would have been nice to wait until we could add some more terrain with it... But if it will take too long, I could as well do a "no-terrain" update disc.I would need to completely fix my UK install, including everything, and put it on a CD... Shouldn't be too difficult, but it wouldn't add anything new to what we have now. What do you all think about it?Cristian

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You can see what models are used by a package, but its a bit difficult. You need a Hex editor, an editor that can look at binary files and show you a translation into ascii characters. I use HEXED from the SYNEDIT package (Matthew Inman), but there are many available.Use your hex editor to open the MOD file in the packages INNERModels folder. It is then possible to check through (or make) a list of names of all models used. The names are not easy to see but with practise it is can be done.I use this technique before uploading a major new package to check that I have supplied all required models.Cristian, there are several new scenery sets well under development. If you could wait until these have been released, then possibly we will have the stablest UK-South for the longest time. So people could put up with a bit of confusion for a short while so that we can try and take the biggest step forward for the least work on your part. Then I would like to wokr with you, using Glidernut's models list, to try and be as accurate as possible at making sure all AI, models etc are included.Quaxo, I can possibly help. Send me a zipped directory listing of your current model set (in regionsUK-SouthGEN ) and I will try and check that you have an uptodate model set. My email is R.Driscoll@unsw.edu.au

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Robert,Thanks, I'll check with an HEX editor. But if I'm missing some models, maybe most users are missing them too - as no-one reported missing objects in my screenshots. Maybe it's a common problem, but I'm noticing it more because I have a rather old computer...As for the new update CD: I agree that the more we wait, the more models/packages we can integrate in the disc. (What about including the specific UK aircrafts?)Maybe when we decide to make the update, I'll do a new complete reinstall of the region, sequentially installing all needed packages. Then, when the region works flawlessly, I can burn the CD. Maybe I'll need help from other users though - for example, I still can't use Andr

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Hi QuaxoAll is OK with your FU3 installation of UK-South. Here are my fps results using Ctr5 and Ctr6 to change the building densityhttp://www.agtim.ch/fu3/images/BembGeebee.jpgCeleron 800MHz, Voodoo5500 800 x 600, Win98Building density 0: Bembridge or Heathrow: 32 to 40 fps, IOW landing on runway 23: 14 fpsBuilding density 5: Bembridge or Heathrow: 14 to 20 fps, IOW landing on runway 23: 7 fpsP4 2.4GHz, Gainward GeForce4 64MB, 1024 x 768, WinXP-ProfBuilding density 0: Bembridge or Heathrow: 32 to 62 fps, IOW landing on runway 23: 31 fpsBuilding density 5: Bembridge or Heathrow: 21 to 32 fps, IOW landing on runway 23: 15 fpsThe fps depends highly on how many objects are actually on the screen.moving objects takes more resources and viewing to the Solent Channel there are a lot of ships crossing it.The is an AI on the taxi way in your picture, also lowering fps.I remember landing at Gnos using FU2 with AMD 255 / Voodoo 3 and few models at 3 to 5 fps only.We need a tool that analyze models in the .mod files of a region automatically reporting missing mips ...may be I have one day time to do it.we can distribute a valid modelmip.tag file for UK-South also in the next update and I have a lot of new megatiles but need to update the elevation for it in the north east.did you receive my directory listing of the XP-FU3 single UK-South installation ? With it I have no problems with AI. :-wave agtim

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Quaxo is Cristian? I'm a bit slow! I think I knew this some time ago and had forgotten. My apologies to both of you (Quaxo and Cristian). Anyway, it looks like agtim has sorted things out already. A utility to list models used in a scenery package would be very valuable - and the ability to identify missing MIPs without going into FLED - could you do both in the same utility? Also, agtim, how easy/difficult would it be to landscape around Cardiff as you did at IOW? I was thinking that Luc is building Cardiff at the moment, but its a hilly area and would like nice if the terrain was upgraded.I have mixed feelings about the modelmip.tag. Probably its a good idea. I started to do it, then after discussions with Glidernut couldn't see a clear advantage, although just tidying up the directory would be a big help. Anyway, I am happy to support whatever you want to do there, and you're certainly welcome to put any of my models into a new UK-South modelmip.tag if you want. Glidernut has a current list of models.RobD.

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Since we're talking of a utility to identify missing MIPs -- could it be extended to look for orphan MIPs as well? Rob knows where I'm coming from but I'll spell it out for the rest of you,I've deleted quite a few BINs that didn't work with repalletized MIPs. Evidently, the MIPs may be corrupt rather than the BINs but I deleted the BINs. This leaves orphan (unused) MIPs in my GEN and it would be nice to get rid of them in an easy and safe way.Hans Petter

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Hi Robert,Actually I am very short in time and not every day in the forum, the tutorial for elevation painting is still not finished, hope soon... :-wave agtim

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