Sign in to follow this  
Guest Seadog

Scenery Compatibility Q&A

Recommended Posts

FU3 Avsim Library Scenery Files Compatibility Q & AAndre Meystre ("agtim") and Rob Driscoll recently combined efforts to produce a Basic and an Advanced Library Listing for FU3 files in the Avsim Library. In the Advanced Listing, Rob inserted an explanatory note concerning scenery compatibility which raised a few additional questions. Rob has been kind enough to expand on the subject in this Q & A format.Work is proceeding energetically on a UK South scenery package, but this is a work in progress and is not yet complete. That means the current Avsim scenery files are related only to the two original scenery areas of FU2 and FU3, San Francisco and Seattle. These comments concern only the sections of the two library file listings headed, "Scenery Packages." The basic listing contains seven such files, while the advanced listing contains many more, divided into six sub-section categories. In the advanced file listing, those categories are:MegaSceneriesRegion:SanFran (followed by Rob's note about compatibility)Region:Seattle Bush StripsRegion:Seattle IndependentRegion:SanFran+SeattleRegion:Outer Rob's note about compatibility states: Note: Historically there are three sets of sceneries for the Seattle Region, (1) independent packages (often earliest), (2) bush flying series, (3) Chris Low's megascenery. These 3 sets are not compatible with each other. A selection from the independent packages and the Bush Flying Series is given below.This raised several more questions which Rob has answered below.1. Does your explanatory note about incompatibility apply to the full remainder of the Scenery Packages section in the Advanced Listing or just to the two following sub-sections?A: Only to the next two subsections (Seattle Bush Flying and Independents!). In other words, neither the Seattle Bush Flying or the Independent package sets are compatible with Chris Low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

An interesting idea for future consideration would be to develop a "Seattle STAR" megapack that combines the best bits of my Seattle 2005 pack with the best of everything else. Seattle 2005 is likely to be the final version of this particular megapack, so the contents can be considered as a base for the development of a "super pack".However, this doesn't mean that ALL of the contents of Seattle 2005 should be used. I am simply offering it up as a place to start.The AI environment is something that would require modification if alternative versions of airports were used in the super pack (eg. Robert's McChord AFB and Gray AFB). However, that is something that could be sorted out when the time comes.So, is this a good idea.....or should I just keep my gob shut in future ? ;-)Chris Low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tagged a copy of this post onto the locked one above...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's very generous Chris, but I don't think it would sell! Best to keep it simple now with your current version. I assume most people will install Chris' because it is simple to install, covers the whole area in one go and is completely self-contained. And although I will always think that my Seattle packages are better than sliced bread and creations of amazing verticality, they can't compete with the scope of your work. Anyway, I couldn't face the thought of redoing them now. So let it be. IMHO.If anyone wants to check out the non-Chris packages, they are listed in the pinned posts.Thanks Tom for adding the Q&A to the pinned post! Cheers,RobD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Tom, for doing that. I hope it helps others as much as it has me. Rob has provided the missing explanation about the interrelationship of all the scenery files that mystified me from Day One. Renewed thanks to Rob for that service to the community.:-bigangel -Seadog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I use Chris' packages AND outer terrain!I don't use EVERYTHING, but I put in all the major stuff. I have my own packages in there too, so for example, I used Chris' Harvey as a base for my own, same with Easton State. I don't bother with anything that doesn't have a believeable 'patch of ground' defined, so that takes out a few more (although my Lewis Creek is but a grass valley - ideal for gliding...). I seem to have 44 icons in Seattle right now. As to MY stuff, there are heaps of models released over time and, to make things more logical, I will be re-releasing them all in 2 sets, so users can simply overwrite and know they have everything.I must mention something about these re-compiled tagfiles. My belief is now that we NEVER should have recompiled them to add the new models. There are a few reasons:* The models and mipfiles are 'locked-in'. If the creator wishes to provide an upgraded mipfile, nobody can use it. * If a model-builder (like me) has a great idea, I cannot share it with you - you're stuck with the old versions, even if you copy the new ones to the gen folder :-(* It creates a nightmare for anyone wishing to recompile (to avoid the above restrictions), especially when trying to sort out correct versions of files.* The recompilation technique used doesn't check for the correct files and this can lead to endless, illogical CTDs - sometimes it tells you that a mip is missing, other times it doesn't :-(* I have not detected any performance difference whatsoever, between recompiled tagfiles and a gen folder with 1200 files in it!Now I've had my whinge, I do believe there is a use for recompiled tagfiles - and one only - upgrading/replacing original LGS models and mipfiles. This was necessary to get the upgraded FBOs and ntree models, and can also be used to upgrade any LGS mipfile to 256x256, without causing problems for users.By not adding hundreds of files, the tagfiles remain fairly small, and manageable. Maybe for UKS, it makes sense to have a new tagfile but I'm rather annoyed that I'm the only person in the world with upgraded FBO1 - FBO6 in both regions that don't float! Why? I cannot use the recompiled Sanfran database as it was done AFTER I did the FBO upgrade :-roll. This is why it's a problem. Those Seattle FBOs dropped into Sanfran are a problem. If you never install the database (and just add the files to your gen folder) it's fine.Now, I'm not being narky just because my models can't be used - personally I'd love others to be able to use them but, by locking-up all the dud s*** into the tagfile, users must almost extract teeth to fix the problems. BTW, the problem with the recopiled tagfile is the oddly-named FBO binfiles which MUST be there and MUST NOT be altered in any way. Of course, now everyone has to find them and replace them with the correct ones from Seattle but hey - decompile your tagfiles first or you'll get nowhere.See? We could have avoided all this :-lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using Chris' packages without outer terrain: yes, of course its possible, provided you delete some of Chris' packages in the megapackage (and I think Chris has given guidelines on how to do this in a previous post), but then its no longer SIMPLE! Someone with a bit of technical skill can easily get past the compatibility problems, and my guidelines don't apply then! It is possible to pick and choose the combination of packages you want. My recommendations are really for newbies.As to changing the models databases, I partly agree. I think its worked OK for Seattle, and new models can easily be added to the directory as they are developed. Its been necessary to build a new database for UKS, since there was NO models file there, and it was a total disaster for San Fran, because I didn't follow through and find out what the problems were. So my San Fran models database is NOT one of the links provided in the pinned posts and shouldn't be used.For Seattle, its now a little complex. Two choices:1) provide a new updated modelmip.tag which includes Jon's improved trees etc., or2) go back to using the original modelmip.tag provided by LGS, with Bazza's, Jon's, agtim's and my models loaded as separate files. But you still have to break/rebuild the modelmip.tag database to load the improved tree textures.I don't mind either way and won't get involved anyhow, since I only fly occasionally in Seattle. It would be great if we had a management program that could check for missing files, and add in new files in some way.RobD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently working through this with my setup - I currently have Seattle and Sanfran original tagfiles with JUST the ntrees and FBOs in them - and a plethora of other stuff.My suggestion here is to do what I am doing - putting ALL the models I ever released into one concise set. It was pointless doing it as one set - it's waaaay too big and hard to sort. As to the management program - that's exactly what we need!Maybe we need a separate 'models' site? :-wave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robert,I am not certain about this, but I believe that Seattle 2005 will work perfectly with the outer terrain scenery installed....provided that the "extra airport" folders are deleted (these seem to count towards the number of airport icons on the Seattle map, even if they have not been "activated").I am fairly sure that Hans got it to work. Of course, it may depend on which outer terrain scenery option was selected during the install procedure. After all, there will be more airport icons with a LARGE installation than either MEDIUM or SMALL.Chris Low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon,Would it not be possible to upload your SanFran modelmip.tag file to the FU3 library, so that everyone can have the improved FBO and tree models in one easy download ?Chris Low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good news! Well that would be excellent. I think what we need is clear advice on how to get a working setup. I've been out of the loop a bit, so I'm probably not the right person to do this. Something along these lines:For Seattle, possible setups are:1) Install FU3/FU2 without outer terrain. Install megaSeattle. Install the following model sets: ....2) Install FU3/FU2 with outer terrain. Delete 'extra' airports. Install Chris' megaSeattle (am I allowed to say that?). Install the following model sets: ...... (with links). Don't install more than X outer terrain packages. Suggested ones: .... (eg Phoenix, Tucson, ...)For San Fran, (etc).Cheers,RobD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will upload the tagfiles (both of them) when I've finished testing. To be honest, I did different mipfiles for the Sanfran trees. Not much different but a bit brighter (greener...) and based on Sanfran-like trees, rather than Seattle-style ;) The profiles are unchanged however, so there's no compatibility issues!I was serious when I mentioned a site for all this. Searching through endless library entries, or even referring to forum guides is no substitute for a decent web page. The modified original tagfiles would be at the top, together with information regarding the available models, how to use them, and how to create your own, if you feel inclined. There would be separate lists for each region and a 'tools' section to download utilities.I know that this is beyond the scope of Avsim and I'm not trying to detract from the wonderful job they do, I just cannot see everyone confidently downloading great zipfiles and filling their PCs with the contents - unless they know what they're getting.Just need my own page to kick it off!And enough time to run it...Durn, back to the models ;)BTW Chris, I've been a bit bogged down with some things but I am onto the wider, smaller breakwater and the other stuff. I'll try to send you some more stuff this week. The wind generators are (all) coming along and the square tower is next. That's enough for tonight :-wave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All,I've done the modelmip upgrades as promised ;)See the other thread 'tagfiles at the ready...' here (somewhere). I just need a tester or 2 to give me the confidence to upload it all - any takers?I have upgraded all the tagfiles (Seattle, Sanfran + litemaps for both) to include the new ntrees and FBOs. FBO 1,2&5 are slightly different as I needed to make the mips fit without remapping (or you get floaties!).BTW, Chris, I have some more stuff for you but I cannot post it right now (I'm 150km away from it). I'll try tomorrow.:-wave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon,I assume that you will be sending ME a copy of your upgraded modelmip.tag files for testing ? It goes without saying that I want them.I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there will be some models for me in tomorrow's e-mail ;-)Chris Low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this