Questions from Thanos...

[Guest fu3]

Thanos,I started a new thread for this."So far so good. Just a note. When the blade reaches the sound barrier it starts "not operating" effciently correct? That means not producing the thrust that an "ideal" blade would produce at equal RPM (therefore its not a noise issue)."Yes, there is some loss but the blade isn't exceeding the sound barrier, just the tips (as they are further away from the axis of rotation, they have to travel further for each revolution). The optimal speed for a prop varies with design but most performance prop aircraft and, in fact, many light aircraft can easily 'get a whine' at full power. "This is realy a pitty, from a modeling point of view (and for the purposes of a "game") there should not be a difference between engine types. Generaly there could exist a variable pitch jet, only that when modeling a turbine the pitch would have to remain constant."Yes, it is a definite shortcoming but they may be ways around it if we keep experimenting. You can do reverse-pitch props with piston engines but it's very touchy. When you release the brakes you may go backwards unless you implement a particular hotkey configuration that allows you to center the pitch levers. Then it would work fine ;)"That was a very interesting dumpIs this from FU3?"Not from the game, these are parts of flight mode files. There is a, hang on, you need to be brought up to speed. Go here and download (and read) some stuff:http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=4442http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=4454This forum topic has most of what you need:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=13955&page= Resviewer lets you disassemble and recompile aircraft and AI resfiles. Download it, open a resfile in FU3 and look into the structure. Once you have Resviewer, you can use 'fu3plane'">Preferring the constant-speed prop, I went with that.You mean in the DASH? What are the two bottom right controls then? (i dont remember the exact heading right now). When i vary the pitch from the keyboard these go up and down as well...I assumed that this is the pitch after all."They're the 'thrust levers'! They control the throttle AND prop pitch simultaneously. In the middle, you get 0 pitch. As you push the lever forward the throttle increases and the pitch increases in the forward direction. If you pull the lever back, the same thing happens but with reverse thrust. And yes, you'd better NOT do that in a real one during flight :-lolhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/141466.jpgI didn't do the reverse pitch on the DHC-6 OR -8 but I am currently trying to work out which is best. If I can get stable reverse pitch in the prop. I'll do the that. It's not the constant pitch that's a problem, just the inability to remap the sound effects to do what I want! As I said, by using strange engine model settings, I was able to replicate the punch and smooth power of a turboprop reasonably well IMHO. I've only ever flown piston-engines in reall life but I've spent some time around a DHC-6 (I've also ridden on Dash-8s and S340s on domestic flights)."The 340 is an excellent airplane....By the way, who owns the code right now? The brand is closed isnt it?"I'm looking forward to finishing it sometime! FU3 is still owned (I believe) Electronic Arts. I'm not sure if the source still even exists. It's a hot topic around here every year or so."So how does it work in FU3? (I have downloaded some resources from AVSIM but did not have the time to go through them, some white papers etc) Do you get to actualy compile the model of an airplane to the RES as a binary? (I noticed some header files is this C?). "As above, download Resviewer and play with that. Resfile contents are wavefiles, BMPs, BINfiles (binary compressed 3DS files) for 3D models and lotsa 'hexfiles'. Everything is doable for free. Just read everything you can!"Is there some other scripting language that FU3 uses? Is there a set of predefined controls or commands for interaction with the main simulator engine? (I guess that a compass is somehow reusable right? You dont have to implement it for every aircraft?)"The models are buried in the engine but the way to control them is readily done. It depends on what you're doing. Some folk have written useful utilities to make it easier. 'Cockpit Designer' will edit cockpits in a GUI format - drag 'n' drop that altimeter!, 'N3DS2E.exe turns 3DS files into textfiles. BSP.exe turns these textfiles into binfiles. It's all there - I've even re-posted stuff that already existed, just to make it easier to find ;)"And how about some parameters of the models like damping coeffcient (!!!) i mean where do i get this information from? Is it available in some manuals such as Janes for example?"No, 'damping' settings are cut'n'try but the trick is to begin with a similar aircraft and modify that. Of course, creating the Dash-8 out of the Baron/Windhawk was utterly stupid and took forever to get it to fly OK but I learned a lot. One thing I did learn was to fastidiously input the correct sizes, shapes and masses of the aircraft parts - you would be amazed how well any aircraft will replicate a real one's performance (within limits). The only thing that I've noticed is having to use more power in the engines than in real life. I believe it has to do with flow efficiencies as you can't model aerodynamic 'tricks' like edge tapering and anti-vortex blades :-roll. Most wings are actually quite complex and it is certainly possible to break the wing up in the flight model and have lots of parts but I don't have the time to test it. I'm happy when I can meet takeoff, climb, stall, and cruise speeds in the correct conditions. Beyond that, one could tweak for ever...">...Unless someone can find a way of looping extra sounds>without gapsWhere would you need this?"I'm trying to play another sound, over the top of the engine sound. FU3 has it's own scripting language to create 'challenges' but you don't have to create pylon courses around the countryside with other aircraft to race against (yes, there is one, look for 'Dago Red' and associated downloads in the Avsim library), you could just make a ground or moving model appear at a certain place and time. You can play sounds too, and control the level according to any variable, like the throttles. But you can't loop it. Durn :-grr"You know what? I did try in the morning. I put my post and your answers to a new one, written it all down nice and well, hit Post Message and then tried to look at the whole post but it was nowhere to be found :-/. I searched the whole forum just in case i had post to the wrong category (no way, but just in case). I suppose that the forum scripts "moaned" about the length of the text and rejected the whole post altogether. Anwyay, would it be possible to get an admin to move the DASH modeling related questions to a new thread?"Dunno, this one was pretty long. I've done longer :-waveRegards,Jon PointGlide Distance: Half the distance from the airplane to the nearest landing spot...

[Christopher Low 5,352]

Fascinating stuff, Jon. Now where's that beta test version of the Saab 340 ? ;-)Chris Low.

[Guest thanOS]

HelloI apologise for the late reply but i did not notice this new thread.Thank you very much for all this excellent information, lets go through it shall we?(Note: If i dont argue about something it means i got it :-) )(On propelers and reverse thrust)>Yes, it is a definite shortcoming but they may be ways around>it if we keep experimenting. You can do reverse-pitch props>with piston engines but it's very touchy. When you release the>brakes you may go backwards unless you implement a particular>hotkey configuration that allows you to center the pitch>levers. Then it would work fine ;)First of all, i must say, i did not know that you can have reverse pitch in a propeler. When the DASH 8 is landing (not in the simulation) the sound of the propeler changes but it also "dives" with the nose. So i assumed that the pilot just hits the breaks and brings the pitch back. He might as well be applying reverse pitch?>http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=4442>>http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=4454>>This forum topic has most of what you need:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=13955&page=That was excellent, i will certainly give it a read.>They're the 'thrust levers'! They control the throttle AND>prop pitch simultaneously. In the middle, you get 0 pitch. As>you push the lever forward the throttle increases and the>pitch increases in the forward direction. If you pull the>lever back, the same thing happens but with reverse thrust.>And yes, you'd better NOT do that in a real one during flight>:-lolYou know what? This has actually happened and unfortunately it was a "heavy" (not a cargo :-( ) and it was only on one side. The thrust reverser of one of the jet engines deployed amdist flight and...you can imagine.>I didn't do the reverse pitch on the DHC-6 OR -8 but I am>currently trying to work out which is best. If I can get>stable reverse pitch in the prop. I'll do the that. Would it be realistic if it was done like the beechjet has it? You land, deploy the thrust reversers and apply thrust until you get to your desired ground speed.>As I said, by using strange engine model settings, I was able>to replicate the punch and smooth power of a turboprop>reasonably well IMHO. I've only ever flown piston-engines in>reall life but I've spent some time around a DHC-6 (I've also>ridden on Dash-8s and S340s on domestic flights).I really like the DASH-8...although its too noisy in the passenger cabin...but i guess its much more silent in the cockpit being in front of the engines :-)>I'm looking forward to finishing it sometime! FU3 is still>owned (I believe) Electronic Arts. I'm not sure if the source>still even exists. It's a hot topic around here every year or>so.I am sure that some developer could have reserved a "Developers" copy somewhere :-).>As above, download Resviewer and play with that. Resfile>contents are wavefiles, BMPs, BINfiles (binary compressed 3DS>files) for 3D models and lotsa 'hexfiles'. Everything is>doable for free. Just read everything you can!That "hexfile" seems very interesting, as i said i will give it a good read once i find some time.>I'm trying to play another sound, over the top of the engine>sound. I am kind of lost in this part of your post...Why would you want to do this? Change the timbre of the engine for some reason?> FU3 has it's own scripting language to create>'challenges' but you don't have to create pylon courses around>the countryside with other aircraft to race against (yes,>there is one, look for 'Dago Red' and associated downloads in>the Avsim library).Yeah i have seen the Dago Red and it looks excellent. I spent some time on Sunday trying to get the P-51 in the air and land it again all in one piece :-). After many circuits in the remote Jefferson County strip i managed to get the speeds and handling correct!!!!I like the sukhoi more at this point. Once you have enough airspeed it lifts the tail on its own :-) Lighter aircraft i suppose.OK in general, i downloaded some airplanes and tried flying them in FU3. The Dash's are great but they need some more work. The Dash-8 crashes the game when i try to switch to F2 view.The Geebee never left the ground :-/ It crashes the game when i try to switch to any of the internal views. The most impressive thing was the goose...No, not because i managed to take it off. When i have the .RES of the airplane in the folder the game shows the initial video and never makes it to the main menu screen. Anyone else in the same condition or is it just me? :-)Once again, many thanks for all this excellent info, i really enjoy it.thanOS