Hello Group, Well, by setting all the waypoints in the MADWIN THREE ARRIVAL STAR to Oakland Int manually I am now able to land the aircraft safely on R29. If I just used the standard RCATC guidance they would have me crash into a mountain near the end of the STAR just prior to intercepting the ILS to R29. Thus my two questions:(1) Can I assume that if I set FSNav so that the complete STAR is adjusted for manual conditions can I assume tha RCATC will allow me to fly THAT STAR from the first waypoint set manually and not receive a lecture from them?(2) If that be true then I wonder why RCATC would not allow me to descend to 5000' after passing the VOR ECA, as per STAR, but kept me at the same altitude as the previous leg, ie, BIFFY---ECA or 8000'RCATC did allow me to drop down to 8000' when I passed BIFFY.Thus, using this STAR as an example, it is not clear to me when RCATC allows complete pilot discretion to fly the STAR exactly as filed in the flightplan.I would appreciate clarification of RCATC's behaviour in this and similar circumstances.Thanks guys

version 2 answer - rc doesn't fly stars. once you are on approach frequency, he is going to tell you where to goversion 3 answer - when you contact approach, and he tells you what to expect, tell him you want the ils rwy 29 approach, and he'll clear you for it, and not say another word until you are switched to tower. up to you to fly it.

Hello JD and group, That's the bummer JD because it is APPROACH that directs me right ino the granite wall. Too bad for me, I guess. You never answered my second question or it "flew" right by me if you did and that is" How can you adjust your FSNav flightplan so that you are, at a desired given point in the flightplan, now strictly in the 'you filed it so now you fly it' phase? Not clear on the exactly relationship between FSNav manual setting of flightplan waypoints and RCATC reaction.Cheers

Hi JD, Well John, how will V3 approach help me, in this same case, if it is as you say.For instance, Center tells me to contact Approach before I am finished with the MADWIN THREE ARRIVAL. After a few minutes Approach tells me to turn left to 205 degrees. There's the mountain. Bang!!!Are you telling me that with V3 I will still contact Approach when Center directs me to and then disregard what Approach tells me until I am ready to contact Tower? That doesn't seem to make much sense. What is Approach's purpose in life?I think I may have misunderstood you. It leaves me more puzzled now then I was when I started this thread.Good Morning

Blais,>>How can you adjust your FSNav flightplan so that you are, at a desired given point in the flightplan, now strictly in the 'you filed it so now you fly it' phase?<

Doug,As far as I know the altitude and heading watchdogs go totally bye-bye with NOTAMS. But then again, I've never had NOTAMs to go BELOW the assigned alttiude.

Blais,When you are told to contact Approach, you do so, then after APC gives you an initial instruction, you can ignore it and request an IAP (Instrument Approach Procedure), with a whole host of options. Then you will not hear a peep from APC again until you either 1) announce visual on the field, or 2) are on final at the FAF, at which time APC hands you to tower.RC knows nothing about terrain. If you are flying into mountainous areas, then you should always enable terrain NOTAMs.Which brings up a question. I've flown into Oaskland a lot and never needed NOTAMs. What approach are you flying? 29R is almost straight in from along the bay.

Blais,> RC knows nothing about terrain. If you are flying into mountainous> areas, then you should always enable terrain NOTAMs.That's the key phrase for your "problem", and it is valid for both v2 and v3, so don't confuse yourself between the different versions.The only issue, important for answering your problem, is that I cannot remember exactly when the NOTAMs kick in, i.e. after which point you can fly your own heading/altitude with no interference from ATC.Stamatis

Hi folks, I thank you for doing a yeoman's job in trying to answer my basic question. In a relatively flat area APC does an excellent job. In a mountaneous area don't depend on APC. Understandable. I am looking for the RC program to allow me to fly the STAR as officially documented, to the Approach Control pickoff point, and then fly the approach to the intercept based on my using official documentation. That is all. As I have tried to duplicate, in RW time, my two daughter's many flight between KSLC--KOAK and back many, many times over the past 8 years I have never had a crash into a mountain when using CoPilot by Abacus although, as in Real Life, the aircraft do come relatively close. In complete fairness to you folks let me just say that I, personally, am mostly interested in the integrity of a flightplanning, flight guiding program than I am in the ATC itself. If both work together, as in the Real World, that would be great and is my eventual goal. Now, is it possible for you guys to include some sort of an SDK so that individual users can program the ATC, especially Approach Control, to follow Real World practices at specific airports? Many of us have MS Visual Basic as well as Visual C++ and could do that if some simple guidelines were issued by the RC group.Thanks for your continuous efforts.

Hello Scott, Just thought I'd make this note in reference to your statement on STARs and altitudes: In the FAA published (STAR) MADWIN THREE ARRIVAL the suggested altitude for the ECA--LOCKE--SUNOL leg is 8000'. RCATC will not allow you to descend below 10,000'.Regards

they're chicken

Hello Blais,> In the FAA published (STAR) MADWIN THREE ARRIVALJust for your info, it has becoame MADWIN FOUR ARRIVAL now, (ECA.MADN4) but this is irrelevant.Looking at the plate, I see the first waypoint after ECA, named SHARR, with a note "Expect clearance to cross at 10000' "Next point is LOCKE, and after that is CATTY with an "Expect clearance to cross at 8000' ". But CATTY is only 26 nm from OAK so you will be on radar vectors anyway by then.Btw, "Expect clearance to cross at 8000' " does not mean that you will have to cross at 8000', otherwise it would be a crossing restriction, not an "expect to..." notation.The "expect to..." means that ATC is likely to give you that instruction, so plan for it. If ATC ends up not giving you that clearance, this does not mean something is wrong.Conclusion: Please try flying the flight enabling the arrival NOTAMs. Fly your STAR as filed, and adhere to the altitudes instructed by RC, there should be nothing wrong with that. Then, when you are handed over to Approach and are given a vector into the mountains, as you say, the NOTAMs will have kicked-in and you can continue flying your STAR with whatever altitudes you choose, and transit to your requested approach, as published. I believe RC will let you do that fine, and pick you up on finals, when you are told to contact Tower. Give this a try and tell us how it worked.As a final note, since judging by your questions I am sure you are interested in full realism, in the real world, 90% of the times Approach Radar will radar vector an airliner out of the STAR route at around 50 to 40 miles from destination.Personally, I can assure you that I have never been able to witness a STAR flown in its entirety, and I ride in the flight deck (almost) every time I fly (please do not ask "how come" :-) )Best RegardsStamatis