Hello, Received V3 yesterday and installation was a charm. The RC folks responded very quickly with the key. While awaiting the installation I realized that my point of view of RC vectoring was very narrow. I asked the RC programmers to give us an option to provide our own vectors. In all this time I failed to realize that they indeed DID provide us this option. Simply file a plan with NOTAMS enabled for both Departure and Arrival. Thus my problem is a non issue now because I will ALWAYS file the flightplan with both NOTAMS enabled and ALWAYS ignore both Departure and Approach ATC vectoring. This will allow me to fly safely following published charts and procedures. I do regret not realizing clearly that this option was in RC and for needless message interchanges.Thanks GuysBlais [email protected]

Blais,Ignoring any controller would get your ticket punched in real life, but whatever works for you.

Blais,Glad things are working out for you. While selecting Notams for departure and arrival is recommended in mountainous terrain you won't need to ingnore ATC instructions. ATC will always preface their instructions with "when able" or "when feasable". That gives you the latitude to remain clear of terrain as needed but still retain radar services. I'm sure you'll see how it all comes together after a few more flights! :7Michael Collierhttp://jdtllc.com/images/RCbeta.jpg

Hello Scott, Yes indeed Scott, in the RW I would get banished for ignoring the ATC controller's directions consistently. Yet it the RW the particular ATC controllers involved would be familiar with the local terrain and all flight patterns plus any restrictions. This is not true with RC as generic vectoring is used by the RC program. Thus in order to fly correctly the only option, for me at least, is to use official maps, SIDS, STARS and IAPs. I used the above procedure with CoPilot for years and NEVER had a mishap with the local terrain no matter where I flew. Have to try V3 now. Haven't done so yet. It's ready to roll.Cheers

Hello Michael, Yes indeed Michael I do use the procedure you mentioned but only follow ATC's vector when it is correct. This was the only way I could safely arrive at one airport and, realizing this is only a generic ATC, now understand the procedure I used on that flight is the proper way it is done. It was interesting to monitor the instructions given to the flightcrew in the RW when we were once approaching O'Hare from KSLC. You could clearly understand the vectoring instructions AC gave as we crossed the fix KRENA in the JANESVILLE FOUR STAR. The messages, and vectoring, was sent to the flight crew in rapid order but by using a compass placed against the window I could follow the vectoring course. Very interesting experience.Regards

Blias,Using NOTOMS for areas such as KSLC, KDEN, KSFO, KSEA are all needed to avoid terrain problems. I use them all the time to follow the SID and STARS into those airports.However one thing you should keep in mind, when making an approach into KORD for example on the Janesville approach, two factors always come into play. First the approach from the northwest does not take into account which runways will be active at KORD. Second, real-world ATC will vector any flight all over the place depending on traffic and weather. As Scott says your ticket would get punched right on landing not following the controllers. Another point you should always consider about RCv3 there were multiple real-world controllers on the development and beta test, one who works the O'Hare TRACON. He could tell you a thousand stores about flying in and out of KORD. One thing for sure, they know what they are talking about when it comes to approaches and departures.RCv3 gives you mutiple ways to make approached and departures, however as I know from thousands hours of flying in the real world with the USAF, approaches can vary each time you fly due to many conditions. The way RC vectors you is the "standard" way, then come the deviations based again on prevailing winds, weather and TRAFFIC.CheersBob Johnson

Hi Bob, I am not going to get into a right/wrong discussion with the RW ATC controllers. To do so I would have to be more of a fool than I think I am, or have displayed. In the approach to O'Hare from the east, using the PULLMAN FOUR STAR, which we flew as passengers many, many times, we did recognize the different vectoring direction given by ATC, from PAPPI, depending on what runway we actually landed on. I personally do not know what the practices of RW controllers are except for those at KPVD and KBOS, two Approach Control ATC frequencies I almost always monitor. (I know, I am insane.) So I have a good feel at KPVD and a little understanding of the practices of the Approach Controllers at KBOS. Yes their vectoring is based on the current weather conditions, which I know at the time, and traffic conditions, which I don't know, as well as current restrictions, which I try to obtain data for. Bob, my long, long enjoyment with FS and related add-ons is based on the idea that I try to fly a RW route safely from point A to point B following, as much as I understand of it, Real World practices. It isn't the number of flights I do, sometimes one every week or so, but I like it as real as I can plan it based on my understanding of the whole Flight Control Organization and their procedures. Again, I would have to be more of a fool than I think I am to challenge RW controllers.Thank You BobBest Wishes

Hi Blais,Wise man, they've got Bill Stevens on their side :-eekGlad notams is doing what you want - I use it a lot, never did like flat country ;-).Now the RW, I seem to remember living there once :-lolAll the best,John

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>>...Approach Control ATC frequencies I almost always monitor. (I know, I am insane.)Well that makes two of us then! :-lol I sit here many evenings (like right now) with a pc tuned to live ATC from the US and my scanner tuned to EGNX just up the road, most relaxing :-eek When the wife passes through, she can't understand a word thats said, she's fond of remarking "Still trying to make contact with those Aliens again dear"?! :-abduct

Blais,Actually, what you are doing isn't the issue. It's blaming RC that is. Yes, RC is a "generic" system. As you know it has to be. However, with V3, you will find that you are given more choice of how to correctly fly an approach as you wish.Use NOTAMS in mountainous areas, certainly. The reason they're there is because there's no way to see any terrain except what is directly beneath you. That's an FS limitation. So using NOTAMs is fine.However, you don't want to just ignore the ATC instructions. What you hear on the RW radio isn't always what is done, and I bet if you listen long enough, you'll hear every conceivable pattern and instruction.A better way is to follow what ATC says regarding altitude on the NOTAM (that you have enabled). Keep your 1000-2000' clearance, but follow the vectoring. When you can get down, then do so. You can also request higher from APC. You use NOTAMS or Center in this case, where you get the PD and crossing restrictions.Option 2 is what I think you're really looking for, given your posts. You can use NOTAMs for Center, then request IAP from APC. Now, fly the plate exactly as published, fix for fix at the published altitudes. I assume you have the proper approach plates since this is your main contention. Since you're ignoring APC anyway, this is a much better plan.Now, when you are NOT in areas where terrain is a problem, don't use NOTAMs and fly as instructed, or again, request IAP and fly the plate.RC is far more realistic than you give it credit. By concentrating on this one subject I think you've missed every other aspect, and have ignored every suggestion that has been made. I can say that because even you talked about using NOTAMs way, way back.RC gives you many options. FSATC gives you no options at all, and they don't know about terrain either - much less any kind of real procedure.I hope this closes the subject.

Hi Blais,Glad things are working out for you. Being the C90 TRACON controller that was mentioned I would like to offer you a tour some time, but unfortunately since 9/11, security won't allow me to do that. I practically get strip searched every day myself as I go through the gate.You mentioned the Janesville and Pullman STAR. I hope you also fly the OXI, OKK, and BDF STARS with the proper transition when arriving ORD or I will be looking for your tail numbers. Don't forget departing ORD to fly the fixes listed on the ORD DP. Main Jet Fixes east are ELX and GIJ. South are EON/DNV, J73 GUIDO, and J71 RBS. West are FOD, DBQ, IOW, PLL, MZV and BDF. North is BAE and PETTY intersection. However, you can't go direct BDF when going west as BDF is also an arrival fix. You will be turned towards BDF after topping the arrivals. Happy flying and listen up when flying into ORD. We don't like to repeat transmissions...Larry

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Hi Folks, Please read my latest post. Less confusing.ThanksCheers