craig_read

The only problem I find with MSFS ATC, is that it's very basic and fairly dumb. If you have a lot of traffic, and addons like "MYTRAFFIC 2006" or whatever it is (like I do).. The airports are all very active and it looks great, but you have aircraft landing on top of each other, when you come into approach some 757 will be about 5 inches from your tail.. this kind of thing...MSFS ATC has no concept of spacing, speed changes or demands, it doesn't understand SID or STAR... you're ALWAYS told to maintain runway heading.. *YAWN* and what the routing is when you come to your destination is all about I don't know! Taxing is aggrivating as MSFS aircraft take forever to vacate, and you're not allowed to line up until a landing aircraft has vacated, and yet you can after a takeoff aircraft starts it's role!? MSFS ATC was ok until I knew anything about ATC, Vatsim is, as people have said is about a million times better, just without the busy reality of airfields. From FSX all I wanted.. ALL I wanted, was an intelligent ATC and improvement to AI traffic in general and airport taxiways and holding points. I could have coped with the same graphics for another 2 years to be honest if I got that.Now before I get told off for ranting about MSFS ATC.. there is a solution I found that sort of.. SORT OF.. stops all this and that's AIsmooth.. It does stop the jumble of traffic landing.. still not that great for taking off aircraft but it does help. You might want to consider that.To fly with MSFS ATC you need to file the exact same plan in the MSFS flight planner for your flight, so you are given the option for IFR clearance. Then it's simply follow the instructions. However it's not very good really, you won't get chance to fly the STAR, or SID on your departure and arrival for example, which is a MAJOR part of civil aviation in airliners and kinda defeats the point. For a novice sure it's fine, but the reality is much more complicated and more fun! Even if you're new, don't be daunted by Vatsim, in a week you'll be a pro, it is the way to go! If you're new look at the pilot mentoring, and join up they'll help you, and introduce you to a much more realistic ATC with real people. I hope that helps :)CheersCraig

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!... So THAT'S it!... Thank you :)Craig

I would like to bump this topic up, I too am having this problem.. and I've not changed anything either. What is the fix?RegardsCraig

I know what you mean about the 600, that's something else that really annoys me about the display. Only think I can think of, is it is something to do with my display setting of 1600 x 1200.. seems to upset quite a lot of things.. The EFIS display sometimes gets crushed up too, it's aggrivating.I've got both cargo and passenger versions and the current updates are installed.CheersCraig

Ok.. here it is.. as you can see SPEED REST 250/FL100 and the target speed for VNAV is 252... doesn't seem right to me..http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/156693.jpg

Yes.. I understand all this stuff about the speed waiver.. etc etc.. I'm well aware that speed restrictions are sometimes not imposed for large heavy aircraft.. I'm not really interested in that side of it.. so let's forget ATC completely..THIS IS.. PURELY a sim question.. WHY.. is it possible for the FMC to set my speed at 252 knots on the PFD BELOW FL100 ... when I have CLEARLY set the FMC with a SPEED REST of 250/FL100... SURELY.. it's breaking my rule! And I know 2 knots is insignificant.. but regardless.. HOW can it do it!? Surely it should not be able to do this.. It's breaking my 250 knot SPEED REST that I gave it and displaying it to me! Let me make it a bit more clear..I am NOT changing the speed, VNAV has taken over selecting speeds, the speed dial is BLANK as it should be in this case.. As I retract my flaps etc.. from the takeoff, as I would expect with VNAV in operation it increases the speed target as appropriate during the early stages of the climb. And at one point the PFD target speed set by VNAV is 250 knots.. HOWEVER.. shortly after this and I'm taking no more than 1 minute.. VNAV changes the target to 252 knots.. puts it in magenta on top left of the PFD.. it's BROKEN MY RULE! I didn't think that was possible!? Why is it doing it!? SPEED REST is 250/FL100... my speed set by VNAV is 252.. below FL100...My thoughts are.. if it's ok for it to break it now.. why not break it later?!? I thought 250/FL100 in SPEED REST was CONCRETE.. and that was it.. it would never go over 250 knots below the set FL100... and the fact is.. it's not is it.. because I've got a target of 252 set by VNAV! This my question.. this is not normal is it?If you'd like a screenshot of what I'm seeing to prove it.. I will get you one..CheersCraig

Oops, meant to put this here.. Ok I re-read what has been put here again.. and this is my problem re-stated, I think there has been some confusion..I have for SPEED REST 250/FL100 in my FMC my SPEED TRANS is blank.. AND despite this.. while in VNAV the plane is travelling with 252 knots set on the PFD and also it's doing this BELOW FL100.. and I am SURE it should not do this.RegardsCraig

I think he made a mistake, because if you look at the DVD at 52 minutes, he does say and what looks like pointing at the altitude. "Once we reach FL170, that will change to white"However later on if you look at the cruise 1hr 05, you'll see that it's at the appropriate level and the height is still in magenta, so I think it's just a slip up, or he means the box turns white.

I too sometimes have this problem, and would like to know what the solution is.

Ok I re-read what has been put here again.. and this is my problem re-stated, I think there has been some confusion..I have for SPEED REST 250/FL100 in my FMC my SPEED TRANS is blank.. AND despite this.. while in VNAV the plane is travelling with 252 knots set on the PFD and also it's doing this BELOW FL100.. and I am SURE it should not do this.RegardsCraig

I've just looked on Aerowinx, and with the same config, weight etc.. the 250 knot restriction standsin VNAV, even though it's practically sat on my flaps up speed. When I delete it.. obviously it speeds up.. but with it back on again... 250 knots stands...Where in the literature does it say it will exceed SPEED REST in some circumstances?CheersCraig

Q,I guess we need some further clarification here, when you tried it within Aerowinx what weight did you use? If you've used a low weight on Aerowinx perhaps it's this that is ensuring the aircraft maintains the speed? If you used a higher weight maybe it would exceed it? That is what I seem to be getting from this.Although I do think it's odd I can see the logic, IF the speed rest is obviously unsafe I would expect the aircraft to exceed it automatically, and perhaps display some kind of warning message to inform the pilot is has done so? A small change from 250 to 252 is surely insignificant, and the PFD clearly showed I was outside of any buffet areas, so why did it still select this speed change?CheersCraig

Thank you. Your post was exactly what I was looking for! I already know about transition levels etc and the differences in US and UK etc etc.. that's not a problem and the speed restriction setting, but the speed trans is new to me and thank you for explaining that. As for the 252 knots rather than 250 knots, I had no idea this aircraft would do this, I thought it would obey the restraint regardless. I've learned something else new there. I didn't know most of the time no speed is filled in here either. This is all new and improving my understanding, thank you.Yeah I knew that the view on the 250 knot rule below 10,000 being a blanket unbreakable rule in reality isn't true. I know that a lot of flights with this aircraft in particular get clearances for higher speeds at lower levels normally around 270 ish. I often ask if the speed on VATSIM is enforced for the airfield, almost 100% say yes, but you have to ask! I believe the ITVV Virgin Altantic DVD illustrates this (excellent DVD that).Thanks for the information, it's exactly what I was looking for, and also for taking the time to reply, it's appreciated.Craig

Firstly I would like to know what the difference is between..Speed Transition and Speed Restriction.. it's a PMDG 747 by the way :)But my main question is this, and it's bugging me now, why is it that despite putting a speed restriction in the FMC for below FL100 (my transition altitude is 6000) of 250knts.. It STILL.. insists on flying at 252knots below FL100!?I've checked.. double checked.. 250/FL100 is in the SPEED REST box and the SPEED TRANS is blank.. and it's flying at 252knots.. I'm totally confused.. have I done something wrong or overlooked something here?Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank youCraig

Thanks for all the replies.. I have kinda found a way to do it.. This is how I approach it now..Approaching with APP engaged.. hit TOGA ONCE!... She starts to climb engines ramp up.. (at this point I CANNOT change the MCP speed setting it won't let me.. if I do.. it just springs back to the approach speed! Which I think is totally wrong)... SO.. what I do now is.. as soon as she's got a positive rate. 500fpm or more.. I hit FLCH.. and set the speed bug to 200.. I am able to change it then.... then as she climbs to missed approach alt I retract the flaps to 20.. then when I'll pull in the gear and retract flaps on schedule..I admit I use the A/P a bit too much.. I am however starting to fly all my approaches manually.. and their is a training lap you can do.. I saw on Aerowinx once.. I might replicate that and do it in the PMDG... But this TOGA does some funny stuff at times.. I think it might need looking into.. :)

I appreciate your help mate.. I just want the answer :(

I don't know about that.. how can you raise the flaps without accellerating through the flap speeds.. If I raise them at 155 knots.. she'll stall! Raising the gear made no difference.. I just get CONFIG GEAR! alerts.. Something isn't quite right here.. I am not sure if it's me.. or the simulation..

>What was the speed and altitude set on the MCP when you>initiated the GA? I've noticed that my plane will not climb>past the MCP's altitude if it wasn't set to the proper runway>height.Once APP was engaged.. I set the MCP to 3000 feet.. for the SID.. the speed was obviously for the approach speed.. HOWEVER.. after I initiated the go around with TOGA.. I could not change the speed.. at all.. I tried to change it.. but it would spring back to the approach speed.. I had to activate FLCH and then I could change it...

Hi.. First of all I'd like to say I am a BIG fan of this aircraft.. and I am pretty sure that what is happening here is ME.. and not the simulation.. But I thought I would post a question because despite reading the manual I am having no joy..I am a member of VATSIM and I'm trying to get to grips with the basics of ATC for myself etc.. I'm already a very experienced PMDG 747-400 simmer.. So I'd say I do know what I'm doing with it.. So it may be a long post but I will step you through what I do.The environment is a takeoff and IFR loop around EGSS, as a practice.. I'm using Runway 23.. and the standard missed approach proceedure, which in this case is the BKY4R SID... 1 - Run through initial cockpit prep and performance prep.2 - Planning route in FMC, select EGSS as origin and dest.3 - Select R23.4 - In legs page set BKY as only waypoint at 273/3000 (I ignore the standard restriction to save time)5 - Set the BKY4R as the SID6 - Delete the last two waypoints of the SID as they go a bit far out my way.7 - FMC all happy.. route looks fine.. I set a fix at ISED at a 4 mile radius for the return.At this point all is rosey.. and at this point I have NOT set a arrival, as I'll probably get vectors.I take off.. climb.. turn right on the SID as usual.. continue climbing, once level and at 273knts I turn to 50 degrees on my downwind leg... after a little longer I set the FMC for ILS23 approach in the DEP page. I then set the peformance VREF for landing. 25/157.. Route comes up on the ND obviously not joined to BKY.. I do not bridge the discontinuity in the FMC (I have tried doing so and it makes no difference). At this point something strange happens on the ND, for some reason it draws hexagons around the airfield for the route???? I thought it's making some funny routing between two waypoints close together.. so I look and find RW23 and another waypoint VERY close to one another.. I find removing the waypoint (I can't remmeber the name) 0.2 miles from RW23 seems to sort that out.. Waypoints for landing are 3.. all along the runway track one at 4 miles the other two further out separated by 2 miles or so.. with RW23 at the end.. After RW23.. then the missed approch proceedure starts, just like the SID I used (at this airfield they are the same). At this point I change the missed approach slightly, by setting BKY as the FINAL waypoint on the missed approach proceedure at 273/3000.. It does however (and I stress this) make NO difference to the original tracking on the ND.. it just extends it somewhat to the BKY waypoint..Ok.. so what happens?.. Flying down the downwind leg.. everything is going fine.. I turn right onto 120 degrees.. heading to the runway track.. then finally turning to 200 degrees to capture the LOC.. LOC captured the aircraft starts to line up.. The active waypoint is now the one ahead on the approach track.. as I expected it be.. The aircraft is now in APP with 3 autopilots armed.. and descending with the ILS.. as it crosses the waypoint the next at 4DME is the active.. after that.. I'm close to RW23.. I wait till 400 feet and then hit TOGA... at this point what I expect happens.. the aircraft begins to ramp up and starts it's climb.. HOWEVER.. Shouldn't this thing start to speed up.. I mean I keep climbing at VREF! I actually at one point passed 2000 feet.. STILL at VREF..Now.. I disengage it as soon as I get a decent positive rate.. and use FLCH.. for 3000 and ramp up the speed to 250 to get a safe climb out of it.. as I pass 1000 feet.. I'm thinking.. I'll use VNAV and LNAV now.. Since I took the time to set them all up but it won't engage.. LNAV.. I get .. "NOT ON INTERCEPT HEADING"... now.. I realise I could be slightly off the track now.. but it's a matter of like.. 1 degree out.. or .1 of a mile at MOST!.. SURELY the FMC would be able to cope with that? I find I have a #### of a job using the heading bug to steer back to the track.. like 2 degrees to get LNAV to re-engage.. VNAV.. took some encouragement to engage too.. Now I may well be doing something fundamentally wrong here.. but I don't know what it is.. The only thing I can think of.. is the SID makes the track turn slightly after the threshold of the RW23.. and therefore when I pull up and continue on runway heading on TOGA, I am slightly to the LEFT of the track and not on an intercept heading to get to it.. so I turn 2 or 3 degrees right to capture it..I just find it hard to accept that in reality pilots have to go through all this on a missed approach.. I would have thought TOGA would set you on a runway heading and a climb up to your set miss ap alt.. and accellerate to your initial VNAV speed on the first waypoint of your missed approach proceedure? I would have thought VNAV would engage easily.. and LNAV would be intelligent enough to capture the missed approach proceedure..I am sure I am doing something wrong.. I would just like anyones comments on what I'm doing here..ThanksCraig