urthgental

12 hours ago, MattNischan said:

If this were true, then we would have seen the success of computerized ATC integrated into the modern workflow. However, many companies have tried for the past 30 years, and all have failed. The problem is that the solutions to such a problem set are unbounded.

Thankfully, us sim users generally forgive an occasional safe space intrusion or collision not involving our plane. So, the home version can take shortcuts, like being in direct control of the non-user planes, having infinite knowledge of their state, and in dire situations, forcibly moving those aircraft to an optimal location. 🙂 Even with all those shortcuts, it's a difficult problem space.

I was really hoping that MSFS 2024 would embrace AI for Missions, ATC, Flight Instruction or even onBoard communication. So many different Careers where teased last year. All require dynamic generation for briefing, communication during the missions, react on weather, etc. Will this all be scripted like in MSFS 2020? I am confused. What else then AI could be the unique technical selling point for MSFS 2024. If there is a company that can and should make it happen, then it's Microsoft. I mean, look at Bing. The chatbot is called Co-Pilot !!!!

Maybe back to the original topic of this thread.

Jörg Neumann made it very clear that MSFS will be made accessible to everybody who is interested in the sensation of flight and aviation in general. And he also made it very clear that he will not turn this into a Xbox style arcade game. Mainly because the sensation of flying requires fidelity in all related areas to be convincing. This is his mindset and the only way to make flight simulation a viable product at Microsoft.

I do not enjoy Reno, Maverick or Dune but I can live with it. The product of full of compromises that come with this approach.

You may like it or not. if you are looking for a simulator fully focused on certain use cases, such as to prepare for a checkride in a B787, or to recreate all aspects of flight physics to the limit then this is the wrong product for you.

I fly a little old C152 and even if the actual behavior in the Sim is a little bit different from our real one, I enjoy to fly it from time to time. Sometimes in my home area, sometimes in places I will never be in my life. But I also try gliders and helicopters from time to time and based on my experience with the C152 I feels plausible and  have some great time.

And maybe MSFS is also surprisingly good for those that have a different focus or are interested only in certain aspects. That would be great.

What discussion again. Nobody is saying MSFS is perfect. I have the impression some would be happy if Microsoft stops or fails. And that would be really a pity, it is the best thing that happened to our hobby for decades.

26 minutes ago, ha5mvo said:

Because they are not attached to anything of significance!

Suppose the garmin is great. Mount it on a default 172 and its no more than a lipstick on a pig.

The list of decent addons for the MS/LM sims is fairly short. Historically it would start with the PIC 767 and include the PMDG boeings, the Labs busses, Lago/LH MD and majestics dash 8 and since V2 the bus from Fenix. The freeware Tu154 for FS9/x also deserves an honorable mention. Might have left out one or two, and there are probably a couple of decent GA planes but personally I have interest only in what I don't get to fly normally in real life.

Anyway, the point is, there are very few top quality addons as they require an awful lot of research,  labor and eventual refinement. For that reason you can not expect, nor get those out of the box.

Historically the default stuff was no more than bloatware and I don't really expect that to change. 

For some reason I don't foresee PMDG using WTs  boeing avionics for their next project. Time will tell, I suppose 🙂

I would also appreciate some standards in respecting different views about quality and improvements in MSFS. The default aircrafts and its avionics have improved significantly in recent years. Already in x-plane but especially with MSFS. The various Garmins by WT are excellent for its purpose. Calling this garbage or bloatware is a slap in the face of the developers and all those who are happy with it. 

1 hour ago, ha5mvo said:

Truth or false will depend on your standards....

Don‘t feed the trolls

I think in the first MSFS2020 developer Q&A 3rd parties were adressed and Sebastian mentioned Aircrafts, maybe Airports, and that’s it.

It would have been great see the best 3rd parties onboarded for some core elements such as ATC, Traffic, Weather, Camera systems, etc. But if they did not until now I cannot see why they should in future.

And I expect their ‚always online‘ ‚digital twin’ will be extended in 2024. They have to control the weather globally, both on Xbox and PC to assign jobs and missions. 

Purpose, this is what lacks in all flight sims forever and also keeps MSFS shutdown since many months. I am simming since FS5.1, have a PPL. But still, MS just feels dead.
I hope MSFS2024 brings back purpose to get me back flying the sim.

i know many people here do not want something like FSEconomy or a pilot’s life in the Sim. But a global, online global career mode by Asobo with reward and recognition would be really motivational for me (hopefully). If this is then called gamification and Microsoft style, so be it.

22 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Nothing "cool" about it whatsoever, they tried a new method it's clearly not working correctly and they should've delayed release until they fixed it properly, not yet again releasing something that is half broken. It's everything about QC and as above poor management decisions, again.

Hooray it's free, that doesn't mean criticism should be swept under the carpet like their QC procedures. We all want the best from this product, so we should speak up when things are not right in the slight hope they ever listen, even when it's free.

Nothing is perfect, and it will never be.

Of course everybody can point out things that could have been improved.

But criticism a QC or ‚poor management decisions‘ is something completely different.

first, you have no clue how much QA effort can be spend to such a WU nor what needs to be considered for any management decision.

Microsofts commitment and investment into this franchise is just mind blowing.

It sounds like little children sitting at mom‘s lunch dish, nagging around whatever is being served. 

I hope/expect that ATC gets a complete overhaul, fitting to their mission replacement in 2024.

All these different activities they showcased require a good com interface. PilotEdge or Vatsim are no option at all. This only works for IFR.

And this whole Azure, AI is just too good to be missed. I would be shocked if they do not implement any GPT LLM for that purpose.

Have a look at their recently anounced partnership with Inworld AI:

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/articles/2023/11/xbox-and-inworld-ai-partnership-announcement/

„An AI character runtime engine that can be integrated into the game client, enabling entirely new narratives with dynamically-generated stories, quests, and dialogue for players to experience.“

And to be honest, I am a bit disappointed about the lack of communication from Microsoft about such topics. That is something to be discussed actively with the community.

To be fair, even here there were/are different needs on the weather topic. Many requested to fly weather conditions from the past and not just real time weather that changes with the time of the day.

The live fire topic was interesting. It seems the want to generate dynamic activity/missions that fit to a geographical situation. I hope the implement something that feels ‚live‘ true world operations and rewarding. It could be interesting for many, even for those who are not missing something like this today…

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on anything including MSFS. You may not agree with them but nevertheless, they are entitled to voice it. 

If you can’t accept that this forum is not the place for you. Any further instances of personal insults will be dealt with robustly. Don’t say you haven’t been warned.

There is a big difference between voicing an opinion on a specific discussion versus regularly jumping into all MSFS 2024 threads and constantly bashing with the same old biased provoking arguments.

i do not expect a lot of people who did not care about MSFS 2020 will join the hobby with FS 2024. 

I think the improvements are targeted to existing casual gamers and enthusiasts alike. Really, a lot of what has been presented so far does fit for the current user base.

I do not expect huge improvements in weather or the flight model area, but still I am surprised about commenters in this forum that are not looking forward to the new release.

Really confusing. While the Tante Ju had plenty of charisma these Microsoft Planes are getting more and more boring.

Along with each new plane I would expect at least one unique new feature based on the SDK to showcase how 3rd Parties can implement.

In general, the world map is great. It helps to search for glider spots, heliports, water runways and such. But the usability is really pain. No favorites, stored routes and such.

My assumption is that it is internally considered feature complete for FS2020.

Same applies for the hangar that is also useless and disconnected from plane selection.

I expect both get some significant uplift in 2024.

With career paths and wear & tear for owned airplanes the  UI really needs an overhaul… 

Regardless of its commercial success on sales and marketplace, the true value and our luck is its perfect fit into the strategic direction of Microsoft.

No other product combines its Business Services such as Azure Services, Games Devision, Cloud Computing, Bing Services and many more filled with a vibrant ecosystem of partners.

It is centered in a positively perceived and peaceful Aviation environment. Everybody has sympathy for the dream of flight in some way.

And it is truely global and visually beautiful. Everybody can find it’s place.

It’s not a game, but also not business software. It’s serious, professional, realistic but still, everybody can experience it.

And it has on top such a long lasting heritage at Microsoft. I assume there is a lot of support in the company to support this.

To be honest, i cannot imaging a better product to showcase what this company stands for.

i think we are just lucky that Jörg was at the right place at the right time…

And I would be more than surprised if ChatGPT would not make it into MSFS2024 at some point in time.

What a ridiculous discussion. I hope the people from MS & Asobo do not accidentally read all this word not allowed here.

I think MS is balancing this nicely in FS2024.

Flying in a Sim is completly different from any other type of games.

I am RW pilot and I fly in Sims to recreate this experience virtually. But I need some guidance where and how to fly apart from routes I know at home.

These activites, if not implemented as boring as Missions or BushTrips, can help to experience new aspects of aviation. So I am all for it, in case they implement good procedural scenarios, we will see.

Media Cross Selling again. Not thrilled at all.

4 minutes ago, Orlaam said:

I don't have a lot of hope either.  Honestly, like previous versions of MSFS, I don't care if I need to add third party programs to get things working right, but AI has issues that apparently can't be fixed via third party, and the weather system should be opened up, regardless of how pretty it can look.  Not having weather radar in expensive add-ons is a joke.  We had that in FS9.  It's a beautiful sim at times, and I am thankful for it.  I just wish they would address core features that don't work well instead of just adding more gimmicks to it.  This is really why I don't play traditional games.  They release buggy content, don't fix anything, release more missions or maps, et cetera, then come out with new versions.  It's just a money pit.

At the end of the day, unless I can start my career on the ramp loading baggage and worrying about heat stoke, I am not interested. 😄

I think MSFS is in a very good state and delivers on its promise. I would just love to see more focus on certain aspects of the simulation. But well, maybe you can‘t sell a product with such kind of trailers.

I  hope these are more than just scripted missions. I remember a comment from MS support a few months back when they said that there will be not much development in the current mission system as it is being totally revamped. Hopefully these are more dynamically generated flights based on your progress.

After the first thrill I am a little bit disappointed. Instead of showing all kind of mission style scenarios I would have enjoyed more deep dive into a few of such careers paths that highlight dispatching of such missions,  communication on the way and progress. I thing Reno and Maverick were very dull. I hope we get more beef soon for those of us who fly on daily bases. Let‘s see, but I have not much hope…

I think the default ATC is not that bad at all. It works in many straight forward cases. If nothing changes and no obstacles on the way it can work from departure to destination including SID and Approach. 

However, one fundamental problem is that, once in cockpit, you do not know the flight plan that ATC considers as filed. Vectoring to the next waypoint… What waypoint?

To really improve they must first make the filed IFR flight plan visible in the sim and get rid of the ridiculous navigation log.

22 hours ago, Rob G said:

Hey folks. I have CH Pro rudder pedals. They have never given me trouble in the past. Suddenly, I hit the throttle on a Cessna 172 and start to use the pedals to steer the plane. The pedals start to work but after a few seconds the plane just veers off the runway to the left and I don't seem to have control with the pedals anymore. However, after may be 3-5 seconds, suddenly they are working again. Of course, by that time I am off in the grass against a fence :-).

I have unhooked the cable and hooked it to a different USB port but that hasn't helped. It is not a fluke; it has done it now 5 times in a row.

I could accept the possibility that the pedals are failing but the symptom seems so consistent that it doesn't make me feel like its just a random hardware failure of the pedals.

Advice? Thanks.

You are not alone. I experienced the same issues a few days ago. Never had any issues for years…

MSFS does not publish APIs for weather integration. And they have always been very clear on that. It is not planned and never will be. You may like it or not. 

XEnviro cannot guarantee any support. It can break every second whenever MSFS changes something on the server infrastructure or pushes out an update.

So why do they still bring something like this to the market? They can only promise and oversell. It is a shame.

On top of that, MS is committed to improve long term. Maybe not as fast as we would like but it already shines in many areas. Use a glider in SU11 Beta with thermals, it is just stunning. Miles ahead of what we ever had in the past.

I would not wonder if some people here regularly look up to the sky and state how unrealistic is that!

15 minutes ago, Ridvan Celik said:

I feel as if their moral is really low. Maybe just the vibe I got.

If you live in Europe, everybody’s moral is really low at the moment…