MerlinCH65

Hi AllThanks a lot for your kind support! I haven't had the time to drop by lately but I took well notice of your hints/recommendations!CheersMerlinMichel Bühler

Dear CommunityIt's now about 3 Months that I'm flying the 738 and I am happy to announce that I do have achieved quite some basic understandings, allowing me to do a propper flight incl. SID/STAR with FD from A-B incl. smooth landing :-)During this time, I have noted some questions I'd like to ask you - maybe one of you can help me:a) LNAV/VNAV and/or VOR LOC / APPR - ButtonsI have from time to time the situations that those buttons extinguish.Example:I am in final approach on GMME (Algier) to ILS 21. NAV-Frequency 1/2 is set and OK, I engange VOR LOC while I am approaching around 30 degrees from below the GS. Now I engage APPR and the plane catches the GS and everything is OK. I am working my stuff (flaps, speed etc.) and all is OK. Then, while I do an instrument-panel sweep I realise that the APPR button is extinguised (AP main button is on) This is both on virtual cockpit and on 2D-Cockpit. I cannot engage it again. But still - the approach works well - it' s just the button that is off.Question: Is that normal? I don't remember having seen it extinguisedB) FMC Altitude vs. LNAVOK - I am not a pro - all I understand is that there are "white altitude entries" and "pink altitude entries" and if I remember well, the white ones are "fix" and the purple ones somehow "not"However - on that same flight approaching Rabat (GMME) in Morocco I watched the FMC waypoints and their white altitude entires. The plane was on LNAV/VNAV and AP was on. While the plane was following propperly the vertical path, the lateral was not correct. This is what happened:The FMC showed the next waypoint at say 8400 Ft - but my plane was continuing going down (was at 4000 Ft and still going down. It was even lower than the 2nd next waypoint ahead. The altitude settings on the MCP was at 1800 FT (I did this because this is the altitude at which I will catch the GS and I don't want to continuously lower the MCP Alt Settings - I understand that the plane should follow the FMC Alt of the waypoints, right?So, why is the plane going "BELOW" the "WHITE" waypoint altitude?c) 1000 Ft Altitude difference (Plane vs. FSX ATC)OK - this happened very rarely - I can recall it once after take off from LSZH (Zurich Switzerland). I was heading north-east towards Germany. ATC asked me to climb to 7000 Ft. and thus I set 7000 on MCP. Plane is on LNAV/VNAV mode, AP engaged. Baro is set correctly.Now, I climb and cross 6000 Ft continuing towards 7000 Ft. Now ATC (FSX-ATC) says: You are 300 Ft above your assigned altitude. But I'm not! ATC is only happy if I stay at 6000 Ft instead of 7000 Ft.Now, this is something that happened to me very very rarely and thus I don't think that it's a user error - as if so, then I would have that more often :-). Do you have any idea what that is?I have to say that I have not yet installed SP1c - just in case you wonder.Thank you very much for your valuable input!CheersMichel

Ryan :-)It was you who confirmed me regarding the controller! Thanks again!! (Sorry, I mentioned "Rick" LOL)Regarding Flaps 1 - yes, you're right. But this was just an error of me during this specific test - it actually was the controller FF-settings only!Thanks again RyanMichel Bühler

Hello All - Hi Andrea & Rick (?)It was a Controller - Issue!!! I had to reduce the FF-Ration from 100% to 30% and everything works fine NOW! I don't loose the AP - I do not go out of trim - everything is just working well.Thanks to everybody for your valuable contribution!!CheersMichel Bühler

Hi KyleI agree with you - no doubt! But due to r/l constraints I can only fly late at night and there won't be much ATC coverage on IVAO - I just cannot "guarantee" fix times...Hi FabsI will have a look at it! Thx!Hi MrKenThx as well - I would rather not use any additional Add-On at this time as I am on Win7 32 Bit with only 4GB RAM - I don't want to push it further - else I will fly on a power-point-presentation (3 FPS) CheersMichel Bühler

Hello!I have investigated quite a lot regarding the combination of 738 FMC and FSX ATC (the built-in, not r/l like VATSIM/IVAO). I know that many of you guys don't like the built - in FSX ATC - but for me this is the only alternative as I am not yet ready to go IVAO.This is what I *think* to know:a) FSX ATC is unable to handle SID/STAR A FSX Flightplan cannot be "loaded" into 738 FMCc) A flightplan typed into 738 FMC will not be "understood" by FS ATCd) If I want to have some kind of *real" flightplan that can be used by 738 FMC & FSX ATC I have to use a third party add-onMy questions are:1) Are my findings a) - d) correct?2) If yes: Is there a freeware Flightplanner that I could use to create a flightplan which then can be exported as *.pln (so that I have it for FSX ATC and as *.rte (so that I can use it in 738 FMC)Bottom line - if you want:I'd love to have some ATC chatter and I don't mind getting the runway direction Gate-->Runway from FSX ATC AND I want to have a flightplan in 738 FMC so that I can use LNAV/VNAV etc. for flying. I understand that I have to live without SID/STAR because if FSX ATC limitation.Guys, I'm very interested in your opinion. If it is a payware addon - no problem. If it's good I gladly pay the price.Thanks a lot for your input!MerlinCH65 - Michel Bühler

Hi AndreaI do not use FSFORCE. But I think that the driver of my Saitek Evo Force should allow me to set back the Force Effects and thus I will try to reduce them first to 50% or so, see what it does. It's anyway to strong now - when I roll on the runway to lift off, the first 100-200 meters the stick vibrates quite strongly and this makes in return my screen wobbling around so I and my passengers all go nuts & bananas CheersMichel Bühler

Hi Ryan!Thx for jumping in! I actually have quite a large topic "running" regarding this issue. I will tonite try to reduce the FF on my controler and see if that helps. I too have a feeling that this must be the case.Especially because I DO NOT get the issue when I climb manually (means: I turn off VNAV and enter manually in the MCP a climb rate such as 800/900 (Button V/S) and let the plane climb this way. This way, the climb is steadier and smoother and thus the 738 somehow catches up with trimming or so. When I climb by VNAV or by pushing the ALT INTV - Button I get a much steeper climb which then in return somehow busts the AP's trimming and thus he quits his job and tell's me: DO IT YOURSELF FOOL If my understanding is correct, the AP does himself trim the plane while he is "on duty" (I can hear from time to time trimming-sound when A/P is on) - so if you write: "something's moving the trim somehow" I would say: yes, it's the AP who tries to trim while this steep climb but somehow fails... As I do not touch the keyboard nor the controller it must be an A/P input somehow.I will test that. If I don't succeed, I may open a support ticket if you don't mind...CheersMichel Bühler

Hi fsgeekI am "the second one" with an AP issue (Hi Andrea :-)In my case the AP looses it when I climb e.g. from 5000 FT to 6000 FT (during the tutorial flight from EGKK to EAM at Leg "DET"). In my case the plane starts to climb quite fast and a couple of seconds later my joystick (I do not disconnect anything like you though) does one strong push forward (as if the AP wants to slow down the climb) and then, 1 - 2 seconds later, the joystick is violently pulled back (as if the AP wants to recover from a dive).I also get warning lights (stab out of trim below EFIS - sometimes yellow, sometimes amber). I can also see on the MFD a yellow (warning?) that - if I recall propperly says "CWS" or the like.During those 3 - 4 seconds, the plane actually does NOT dive - it is not possible to "understand" from a flight-pattern why AP wants to do so. As Andrea suggested there might be an influence from my joystick (Saitek EVO Force) which has FF. I will this evening cut down the FF on that stick by 50% for a start and see if this makes a difference. It somehow makes sense to me that this might be the reason.I don't want to hijack your topic - I just wanted to suggest that you may want to check if you have a FF stick and if you - in this case - want to reduce the FF just for the fun of checking it CheersMichel Bühler

Hi GuysHere we go with some more details on my last tests regarding my AP issue. I am more and more convinced that the AP goes out of service due to a trimming issue. I did the tut flight this time in two different ways. The setup of the plane until take off is "by the book/tutorial". The difference between the two tests is (thx RYR738 for your suggestion!) that during the second test I set the ALT of the MCP to 250 (the max height of that flight - and not the 5000 of the ALT limitation that is given for the first couple of legs.No matter how I fly - by the tutorial or by the RYR738-method, I always get the same issue:After switching to AP A and passing the first couple of legs I approach leg "DET". DET is the last leg where I am limited to 5000. The next leg will be FL060...Shortly after passing DET the plane starts to climb. The problem is that it climbs quite steep. For a couple of seconds the AP is still working. Then I get out of trim warnings (yellow, sometimes amber warnings - the three AP-Lights below the EFIS Panel just in front of the captain. In the same moment my joystick rocks back very hard (wants to initiate climb) and AP disconnects. I will have to check again next time the actual speed of the plane, but as at this time the plane is at 250 KN and the loss in control happens a couple of seconds within the steep climb lets me think that it might not only by lack of speed (stall). If I take over manually control of the plane and stabilize the flight (bring back on AP course and trim) I will most of the time NOT be able to engage LNAV/VNAV again. I would have to fly manually to EHAM.The only way to actually continue after DET is to initiate a "manual" climb by V/S at around 700 - this way the climb is not that steep.I think they key question here is: Why am I loosing the AP in a tutorial flight where I do everything OK (MFD Indicators are OK, Speed is OK etc)As a side note: I did another tutorial flight from Tom Risager where he lets you start cold & dark and fly from KIAH to KLAX. The interesting thing here is that during this flight I do not loose control of the AP, even then when there is a climb very similar to the tutorial flight of PMDG. During KIAH - KLAX I do very well... That leads me to believe that there is something with the AP I do not yet understand.Is anybody out there (PMDG-Guys hello :-) who have a clue what that could be? I killed roughly 5850 people during my tests, I'm starting to sleep bad I could not take screenies last time (there are some on the first page that might help - will try to do so during another test - but actually I'm a bit fed up with Southengland after so many test flights.I attach some screenies that are real small but i have to due to size limitation - just use zoom to see some details (hopefully)... Good nite lads! And thanks for your ever so great patience with the rookie!Michel Bühler

Hi JanpitorI already have disabled this feature in FSX as recommended by PMDG in the manual - but hey - thanks! It could have been that. Actually, I'm flying with "fair weather" and I don't have ASE on - I plan to turn on the fancy stuff later as soon as I have a remote idea what I'm doing on that left seat

Hi FredIf all else fails I will do this & let you know!Hi BruceSure! Wishing you wife all the best and take care! Passengers can wait :-)!!Michel Bühler

Hi AndreaIt's a bit late now here in Switzerland :-) but I will give Screenshots or other info. Right now I did the following: there is another Tutorial flight from Tom Risager from KIAH to KLAX that starts Cold & Dark. I will do this and will let you know what happened. I will also try your suggestion of directly punching in FL 210 in MCP. I just need to go to sleep now hehehe...Thanks for standing by !Michel Bühler

OK - here is the result of the next test:This time I took of, AP set and all is OK. After Leg DET I manually disengage VNAV, select 6000 on the MCP and manually let the plane climb by setting 600 climb rate. Plane climbs steadly, rest of AP (LNAV and A/T is still on and OK).Now I pass the next Waypoint and now I am OK to climb to FL 210 (or similar). I engage again VNAV to let the AP control the ascend. Some seconds everything is OK, then the plane starts to climb faster and accellerates. Then VNAV kicks out and here are the messages:On FMA I get a ALT ACQ Message and I get the amber warning light below the EFIS (the most left one AP P/RST) and I dive.Any idea?Michel Bühler

Edit/Addendum:This time, the AP engagement after Take Off went bad (argh). Is it possible that PMDG does not like it if I prepare a flight until I am ready to take off & then reload that status again and again just to practice take-off and AP operation? It's strange that I sometimes can engage AP well and all is OK until the **** ALT-Change after DET and sometimes I completely fail to engage?? For example last try I was ready to take off, everything was Set & OK on MCP etc. I start to accellerate and about 45 N I engage TO/GA with ctrl+shift+G and IMMEDIATELY my VNAV and LNAV buttons extinguish on the MCP and I can't get them to work again?God I really want to learn that but the behaviour is so random I just don't get that.Can it be a System-Issue of my PC? I have a 32-Bit Win 7 with 4GB of RAM and run FSX with PMDG 738 at around 20/22 FPS during this flight - seems not to bad, no? Is it possible that my PC doesn't catch up with what needs to be "calculated" in the background? Is it the moonphase LOL?Sorry - don't want to sound bitter but I'm passing around 24 hours in total and have not even done successfuly the first tut flight.Michel Bühler

Hi AgainJust did the flight again. Take of and A/P engagement work well - got the hang on that :-)After the Leg "DET" the MCP limitation of 5000 has to be increased to 6000 and the ALT INTV Button must be pressed. Now the plane starts to climb (quite strong ascend as said in the tutorial). I keep the AP support for a couple of seconds, then I get the yellow FMC P/RST Button below the EFIS. No Error on the Upper Panel so far. In the FMC I go into the PROG page and click on page 2 (i think) where I can see an Error "XTK Error". Googled that - did not found anything.I am going to try one thing though: I will do the climb from 5000 to 6000 NOT by VNAV (will disengage that one) - I will do it "manually with dialing in the desired climb rate and will level the plane again at 6000 and then will engage VNAV again. Let's see what happens. Will report soon.Michel BühlerP.S.: I installed the SP1 (yes, beat me for not having done that before...) and I realize that some instruments have changed. But hey, that's probably the way it has to be (e.g. middle panel the second artificial horizon-thingie is now different...)

Andrea - is the STAB OUT OF TRIM light one of the three warning lights just below the EFIS? Because there it actually flashes (sometimes yellow, sometimes red)...Thx!Michel Bühler

Hello AndreaThank you very much for your suggestion too! I will check PFD, FMC (hope to find something there), FMA (have to learn what that is - I think it's those 3 zones above the PFD as you say where I can see in green letters stuff like N1 - VNAV LNAV etc. etc.) and Overhead Panel.I don't think that it's a route issue as I follow the tutorial guide by the letter and I know how a discontinouity looks like in the FMC Legs/Route Page - so here I *should* be save. The joystick could be a possible reason even though I do not touch it when *it happens" en route - but since it's a FF (Saitek Evo Force) there could be something in here. As it happens when I am in between two legs with the same max height (EGKK - EHAM during the first couple of legs where I am still locked on 5000 by MCP and override the FMC commands). That's why option 3 (did not cared for correct descend rate) is probably not the issue as there I'm in level flight or have to ascend from 5000 to 6000 FT. I have to check the FMC etc. as you suggest.Andrea - if I may add one more question:There is something that I don't get: During the Tutorial Flight I have to change the ALT on the MCP from 5000 to 6000 and to click the ALT INTV Button in order to allow AP to follow now the ALT's that are put into the Route in the FMC. Now in the Tutorial it says that the Airplane *will* react a bit jumpy on that because on this flight it is "light" and thus I have to expect quite a steep ascending behaviour of the plane. Now, this is a typical moment where the AP does disengage.What I did found out is that I often seem to loose AP support when the AP has to do some trimming (can hear the pff pff sound hehehe). That was the reason why I supposed that the AP is a bit "delicate" on such manoeuvers. What is your experience? Should the AP normally be able to handle a bit "wilder" manoeuvering (where as wild is a bit much said to be honest... - it's a simple ascend from 5000 to 6000 FT after all) or is that just out of question on a "real" plane such as this PMDG 738?Thanks for your support - to all of youMerlinCH65 - aka Michel BühlerCaptain: What's the most difficult thing about lifting off? "It's not to overspeed!"

Hello BrucekLet me first answer your suggestion:a) Yes, I get (mostly) the yellow warning lights just below the EFIS Panel in front of me. I also once or twice had an amber light...I did not check the overhead panel, will do so. From what I learned from Andrea (post below of you) I do have even more options to search for the fault (which anyway will be me - as usual )MerlinCH65 - aka Michel Bühler

Hi BrucekThanks for your reply. Actually I know of that "do not touch the stick when engaging the AP" and thus I don't do this. I now have a better rate of success in getting the AP to work - what happens now is that it stops working in the "middle of nowwhere". Is it possible that the AP stopps working if he has to do to much trimming and/or to hard up/down/left/right alignements? Cause that's what it looks like. Also what happened just right now was that for whatever reason the "FD Master" was on the left seat... I always have it on the captain's seat as told in the tutorial (switch FD on first left, then right). Why does it change? I found that out as hitting the AP CMD A-Button did not work and out of sheer frustration I hit the B-AP and it went green. When I then switched of both and then the captain's FD first again (got the green MA) - it did not help either. Can we say that the AP is very "delicate" or is it again just me goofing it up?Hi MarkThanks a lot for your valuable input! I will try that as soon as I stop ramming the plane into south england

Lo & Behold! I think I solved my initial AP-Dis-engage-issue!This time I carefully watched to "stay" within the LNAV/VNAV-'s pink cross. In other words - I took off as if the AP would do it from the start! And this time, when I engaged at around 500/600 ft, the AP could engage and the journey went on! For a while, at least...My next challenge right now is (remember, I'm still in the Tutorial Flight EGKK - EHAM):At Waypoint D015E the height restriction changes from 5000 to 6000 foot. The manual says to manually change the ALT on the MCP which I do. Then, it says to push the ALT INTV-Button which I do. In the manual it says that I have to expect that the plane starts to ascend quite steeply - what it actually does. Then, again - the AP goes ballistic and I am back without any AP-Support... This time I had no chance to get him back on duty... Edit: Just did another test - this time again good take off and AP takes over. Just before Wayoint Tunby - again AP looses it. It all comes down to this question: Why does my AP decides to stop working? My joystick rocks back/forth and the AP is disengaged. Even if get VNAV and LNAV to work (and thus get the pink cross on the MFD) and even if I manually bring back the plane on course and stabilize it - I cannot click on the AP CMD A button - it' s just blinking briefly green and extinguises..Any ideas?YoursMerlinCH65 - aka Michel BühlerWhat's that Button over here - "GG"? Oh, that's the knob you push if you want to see the Gilmore Girls on the MFD

Dear JasonThank you very much for your kind offer to look at my issue.I have done some Printscreens in the Word-Document attached. They are done in the order of the "event".First Screen shows the setup prior take off (everything is "set" to go).Second Screnn shows on the runway. Still all is OK.Then, at VR I gently lift off and let the plane climb. AP CMD A is not yet set.Then, at around 400 - 500 ft I push the AP CMD A Button and normally the AP takes over. I make sure that at this time the stick is in it's idle position!I lower the gear and we go on.After a couple of seconds (mostly) I loose VNAV (I can only see the horizontal pink bar on the Captain MFD - VNAV Button is extinguised. This is what you can see on the third screen. (I actually have the impression that sometimes I see a difference in terms of "button lighting" between the VR-Cockpit and the 2D-Cockpit)... During my last test I also got an amber warning light on the leftmost AP-Warning Light that you can find below of the EFIS. On the screen it is dark but this is because it flashes and the Printscreen did not catch that.At the same time the AP CMD A-Button looses the green light. If I try to level out the plane to establish stable situation I sometimes manage to get the AP take over again and VNAVis green again - but that's not helping - the plane does not follow it's path anymore. The plane starts to dive. I took a last screenshot prior to fatal crash.During this event I do not get any message on the FMC Scratchpad.What bugs me most is: During one of my first testflights I was actually able to take the plane to Schipool but for whatever reason I was to fast and the plane could not follow the glide slope vertical-wise (it was OK horizontally).It also happens that the plane starts to dive enroute during a situation that seems to be stable (like between two legs).I'm really wondering what I am doing wrong here... Do you see any fault from my side?Thanks for your valuable time guys!! I do appreciate it really! MerlinCH65 - aka Michel BühlerBring me the fish-menue - just for a change today

Hi FreakI would rather like to get that tuturial flight well from A-Z a couple of times before changing the parameters.I will check for some warnings on the FMC - let me try it again this evening - will let you know! What I remember is that I get some amber or yellow warning lights at those 3-Buttons on the front panels that deal with the AP - normally I get yellow, once or twice even amber warnings. What bugs me most is that VNAV suddenly stops while I am perfectly leveled out "en route" - this shouldn't be, no?Cheers & Don't give up Guys - we need to ship those Tommies to Amsterdam damnit MerlinCH65 - aka Michel BühlerNo Captain, this is the door-butto......

Hi FreakThx! Actually, yes - I do have VNAV and LNAV engaged as described in the Tutorial. I just tried 2 times again. I have mixed results. I think that I need to engage the AP (Cmd A) "the right moment". I made it just right now - the AP took over command, flew the plane on the leg - everything OK (I can see the pink cross from the AP that "tells" the plane where to fly to.Now, what happens is that "everything seems AOK - then suddenly VNAV extinguish and the plane dives". I have no idea why VNAV gives up its job (LNAV is still on duty) I tried to manually level out the plane and to bring the bird into a stable situation - then took of my hands of the joke and tried to engage VNAV again. Once that worked, the last test I did it did not. I was not able to get AP to work again.Is it possible that this AP - Stuff is very sensitive or am I just missing something? I mean I follow the MCP setting at the point - my Flight Plan in FMC is also OK (checked the legs distance/height/speed limit etc. - all is OK. I don't get it.Any idea?MerlinCH65 aka Michel BühlerDarn - the button does not light up - click click click click cl.....

Dear FriendsI just completed the tutorial flight (a bit like a chimp on the left seat clicking the buttons the almighty suggests ) and here we go with some questions. Feel free to point me to other threads!General QuestionsThey all revolve around FSX ATC vs. Flightplan of the 738 FMc.a) How can I "tell" the FSX ATC my (very detailed flight plan incl. SID/STAR)? I am used to create the flight plan with FSX directly but this won't work anymore as it will never correspond to the one I create with the FMC of the 738. Does that mean that I'm "done" with ATC-Support in FSX when flying the 738? There is another great Tutorial flight from KIAH to KLAX. There the Tutorial tells me to lift of from Rw 9R. When I ask FSX ATC, it will always assign me Rw 33L or 33R (issue is probably the same as a)My assumption: Are you using a specific tool to create the Flightplan first "offline", save it and import it into FSX and only LATER "recreate" the same flight plan in the FMC of the 738? If so, are you using VRoute?Tutorial-Flight Specific QuestionHere, it is all about the Autopilot. I was already using the AP on a standard 737 and I was able to operate it. Here in the 738 I do have some issues. This is what I can recall "by Heart":We are ready to take of, MCP is set as described in the TUT of PMDG (Gatwick-Schipool). I start to accellerate (moderately) and I can engage the TO/GA so that the plane now accellerates itself.We rotate, I gently lift - Autothrust works fine. Now I engage AP A - the button lights up. Now the issue: The plane does not climb as described. It only climbs if I manually set the V/S rate (e.g. 900) - then it climbs. But this is probably not as it should be - as settings V/S is not said in the tutorial. I generally have some warnings/beeps (those 3 AP-Warning lights that go off eventually - but they are probably just a follow-up issue of my general problem of not getting the AP to climb as it should.Can you help the rookie?Your advice is - as always - very highly appreciated.MerlinCH65 - aka Michel Bühler"You have not been cleared for take off - Flightplan cancelled"