vonBobo

wow! throw a bed over there, a kitchen over there, and rent it out as an apartment! Those set pieces are wonderful.

 

 

Really don't want to labour the point RR but if you re-read what you said - you did appear to be speaking for others.

I just found the irony of it mildly entertaining as we all still wait for tomorrow's plane...

you just made a statement for everyone, in a post about not making a statement for everyone. haha! sorry, just thought that was funny.

You wanna see source? Well, I am the source. Just STEAM itself had over 3k users on Flight for the first week after entry. The Hawaiian Starter Bundle, sold for $30 USD got up to as high as 6th most popular bought over steam that week.

 

If you don't believe it, you can ask any beta tester other than me who has steam and they can backup the evidence that I saw over steam. Ask a dev like delafina and she'll know.

 

And vonbobo, you sound like you still think that Flight is still a horrible simulator.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, your opinion is not the same as statistical sources.

Relax with the us vs them stuff. :Peace:

Flight! is really successful at this point with an audience far larger than FSX simply because MS got it right.

what??? source please

i agree, it's a theme along with hawaii, no reason to panic. Im also assuming they are trying to maximize the profits out of these models. Once there are more capable and in demand planes available in the market, the sales for these cockpitless warbirds will bottom out.

And what other aircraft would be more appropriate to be without a cockpit? A vcless cessna is useless.

free area- as in do not have to pay for it. They gave us the big island for free to try out, I doubt there will be a similar free trial area in the Alaska scenery.

What exactly was your complaint?

Even though I had made incorrect assumptions about what was included with the Maule (Maule landing challenges), I still feel like the whole thing is a bit shady.

Alaska is going to provide some interesting insight into how MS is going to control the market, and add dependency between the different a la carte aircraft and geographical areas.

Other random thoughts (not necessarily what originally set me off, but is just more fodder for the "con" column)-

It depresses me to think that all of the Flight dlc content available right now is a fraction of what comes with default FSX (not including the freeware potential), yet costs more than what FSX cost when it was first launched.

Replacing the dollar values of DLC with credit values should be an indicator that MS is playing games with your wallet. The trick is used in a number of industries, and they make no attempts to hide the true intention of it. I get it, and whether or not anyone agrees with me is irrelevant, it is just another one of those things that taints me on the experience.

thanks for the help hook.

I couldn't find any clandestine jobs on my first pass look after purchasing the Maule, nor have I ever casually seen one; however, the default cargo jobs (chickens, peoples, 800lbs of cats, etc) have always been there. I'm level 12. I've been flying regularly since launch date, and have had the maule preview content for more than a week or two. I have just finished installing the rest of Hawaii, so I won't be able to confirm whether or not clandestine is part of the purchased Maule dlc, Hawaii adventure pack, or both.

Yes, the short time I have had in the maule- one circuit now, has already boosted my enjoyment of Flight. The cockpit looks great, and the faster speed does a better job showing off the flight engine. It's too bad this aircraft wasn't included in the free to play download, as it really raises the wow factor quickly. The Icon did absolutely nothing for me, but fortunately I'm a stearman fan so that kept me going.

The maule landing challenges are what I was mainly wanting, I had even wished for something exactly like that for FSX. But I wasn't too excited to pay for more hawaii and more repetitive missions, so I was saving my cash for Alaska, which I have a feeling wont have a free to fly area. I am also hoping that maybe the Maule will have missions for Alaska as well, and maybe even a free ski upgrade (neither of which I feel will happen either). But again, to be "fair" to MS's sales game, nothing in the maule description said it included challenges or missions, like I eventually discovered is stated in the Hawaii adventure pack.

supporting it doesnt mean you have to make excuses for everything that sucks about it. Just let me vent- like the shady way ms makes you buy credits instead of just paying for things straight up. theres no excuse for this system, other than straight up slime ball sales tactics.

sorry to throw this in your face, it's not specific to you. Im tired of all of the polarized excuse makers on both sides, it's ruining these discussions.

how about I agree that you have a beauty of a screen shot there, if you agree MS is engaging in "creative" ways to fleece our money? :-) Its not so difficult to get along after all!

whatever man. It's a marketing shell game, and it worked. It's not a very endearing quality in a product.

I'm not really interested in excuses, i blame myself. No need for anyone to defend MS. I know you love it, and I'm ok with that.. really.

Ughh! this sucks! I just made this mistake... bought the maule, but I don't have the hawaii dlc. How did I miss this post? I'm an idiot.

Also displeased with the a la carte shenanigans of Flight. My feeling is that companies should focus on making a product the customers want, and not spend energy on silly ball and cup games with pricing.

The prominent "no refunds" warning on the maule's purchase screen should have triggered more of a medichlorian reaction in me. :Phbbbt:

I think we all just need to see MS release something for Flight, at least give everyone something else to talk about.

Lord help us all though if it is a cockpitless aircraft!

agreed!

and agreed!

 

 

The problem is, a forum completely dominated by "haters" is barely worse than a forum completely dominated by "######." If you go to either extreme, the forum becomes worthless. I've seen how bad "######" forums can get.

 

Not just in this thread but in others, people have begun attacking anyone saying anything negative about Flight, to the point that we lost a good moderator who had a lot to offer to our enjoyment of Flight.

 

That's just sad, because this has been pretty much the only forum on the internet where Flight could be discussed in a mature and adult fashion. And it's going away.

 

 

 

 

No problem.

 

I don't know why some people just don't like to get along. The only thing you can say with certainty about somebody who takes an extreme position (on either side) is that they are wrong, at least to a certain degree.

yup. the two sides are definitely polarizng... unnecessarily.

 

 

Indeed, but that wasn't the statement made, to which I responded.

 

 

 

You did leave off a very important "If..." portion of the quote, which in it's absence does dramatically alter not only the tone but the implied meaning of the statement.

 

If I'm going to be called "naive" because I think both sides of a discussion should be allowed to speak, I certainly feel free to respond in that way.

sorry, that wasnt my intention... im typing from my phone.

But my feeling is the same- these discussions are going nowhere. There is nothing more to gleam from either side,we might as well be pissing about what our favorite color is. Flight may be the subject, but Flight isnt the motivation behind why we are all building walls and mounting attacks.

you have issues that go well beyond the scope of what would be appropriate to discuss openly here. I suggest professional counseling.

Even though i agree that the pro flight folks can be a little too sensitive lately, and add a dash of mob mentality in there, this was a bit over the top IMO. Im hoping if we can all take it down a notch, we might start meshing easier. Maybe our opinions could start having meaning again, instead of being disregarded as a hollow attack.

 

 

I see what you did there. Now answer it as if I'd made the same statement to you.

 

Hook

The records may prove otherwise, but compared to my true feelings, I feel like I have been fairly moderate as of late, or just kept my mouth shut. Frankly Im tired of both sides being critical when there is also an underlying sense of arrogance. It reminds me of watching a political debate where both sides of the house are entirely misguided with one sidedness, and ending in congratulatory pats on the back and catty eye rolling.

I really started seeing things differently when the pro fight group drove off arwen, that demonstarted to me these discussions are doing more harm than good. Is that really what everyone wanted? Its a freaking game for F's sakes, and everyone here needs to share the blame for the state of the city we live in, myself included.

Just the inherent nature of a product and humans - can't please everyone.

too bad Josh couldn't have made a statement along these lines, as it makes a lot of sense without contributing to the pointless debate of which is better: chocolate or vanilla?

Etymology is the last refuge of the person who has run out of arguments. :)

 

 

 

Hard core simmers not only have unrealistic expectations, they are totally unwilling to compromise. This makes any communication with them difficult, as any Flight fan can tell you. Mr. Howard found talking to them unproductive, which is a shame as there might have been a few changes in Flight, but for the hard core simmer it's "all or nothing." We're lucky we have radio nav aids in the game at this point.

 

Hook

I dont agree with a number of things you said, but we've been down that road before, so here is my aternative reply:

You appear to want to further the division yourself. You have become your own enemy. I think a lot of the vocal supporters need to heed thier own advice: enjoy what you play and get over it.

I really want to blame a lot of the division on Josh's statement labelling a segment of the users as "hard core simmers", and then saying they have unrealistic expectations. For me, this was the official beginning of the us vs them.

From what I understand, there was a lot of criticism when FSX was launched as well, but did it divide the users against each other? I mean, in the FSX forum, do you hear those users bashing FS9 users for not upgrading or "getting onboard"? I also don't see the FSX users being so touchy towards the criticisms of FSX- and there are many!

im interested to know if alaska will have a free to play area.

seriously- if you haven't had the pleasure of playing Pilot Wings, you dont know how fun flying games can be.

The only message that comes to my mind is "we want no simmers to play this game at any costs", which frankly doesnt make any sense to me.

Josh's last two or three interviews have been very clear that this game was designed to attract a new audience, and not to cater to the "complex" needs of the HCS.

I agree... flight is about greed, controlling the new marketplace with a detached attitude of "these simmers will buy anything". MS realy missed some key elements of what made FS great.

However... these warbirds make total sense with hawaii and wasnt surprising. I even looked over the warhawk when the first clue was released, along with the bearcat, corsair, lightning, etc. We probably wont see anothr warbird for a long while, maybe not until they will do a reno dlc or something like that. Alaska will likely have relavant planes like a tundra cub, something with skis, and perhaps a beaver. Maybe we'll get a big city next with chopper missions and a small twin commuter?

What is amusing, ironic, and very revealing is that real professional pilots do not disparage other types of flight or their pilots. In fact, we all see how they often practice more leisurely recreational flying in their spare time, either in sailplanes, ultralights, or old fabric biplanes. They even often fly RC models! Talk about not having a cockpit.

thats not true at all. while pilots belong in one fraternity, there are still divisions within- fighter pilots make fun of bomber pilots, co-pilots are not captains, no one wants to fly plastic dog crap out of china, the blue angels act like they invented man himself just so he could learn to fly, and everyone thinks heli pilots have a screw loose. All pilots are fiercely loyal to their particular job or plane. the profession itself is somewhat elitist, similar to doctors in a way, and certainly that elitism exists within itself as well.

back to the topic- wasnt it josh who started the whole "hard core simmer" rhetoric? His team failed to seduce that crowd, and instead of being a man and owning his mistakes, he took the corporate route and blamed the customers themselves by labelling them, and in turn also defined the division within the sim crowd, and solidifying the resolve of the supporters... brilliant.

I'll be very surprised if in 3 to 5 years we don't have something recognizable as FS11.

Man I hope so! Unfortunately, the days of freeware and limitless customization is probably over forever... post FSX of course.

Kind of reminds me of the New Coke debacle, when they went from granulated sugar to high fructose corn syrup.