srborick

We're growing and adding new skills to the SIM-Posium on a daily basis. We'd like to see everyone who is interested in the development of a next generation flight simulator to join us and add their ideas and skills to the mix. UNIGINE Sim has graciously offered to extend our access to the UNIGINE Evaluation Kit allowing us the time we need to develop our own demo. If you've ever wanted to get your hands on this evaluation kit, now is your chance. Join Us Today! Stephen B.

The SIM-Posium is moving right along and many of the ideas you've mentioned in your comments are being discussed. There are a ton of possibilities available as we are learning daily as we continue our evaluation of UNIGINE Sim 3D engine and the ability to go beyond plausible is certainly there. As in FSX and P3D the end user will have the ability to turn on or off those items he deems most important to their style of flying and the capabilities of their particular system. One thing I can say with certainly... with UNIGINE Sim we have the capabilities to go beyond anything yet seen in any current flight simulator. The possibilities are truly amazing. Stephen B.

Refresh 5/13/2015

Refresh... 6/12/2015

I'll look into it. Stephen B. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ For anyone that may be interested in the development of a next generation flight simulator the NGFS SIM-Posium activity level is on the rise. More and more folks are joining daily and adding to the conversation. Your welcomed to drop by and see what the buzz is all about. Stephen B. nexgenflightsim

Another thing to keep in mind when selecting which engine to use is the overall direction that the developers themselves are taking and it's clear, at least to me, that UNIGINE Sim v2 is being developed as a simulator platform. This is good news in so many ways if we are making a conscience decision to go beyond flight simulation in the future. What is equally important... since the goal is sustainability and continuous progression is the fact that UNIGINE is asking for our input. Now to me... that's a clincher. Any 3D engine developer who ask what we need and we have even the slightest influence in the direction and features that are included into v2 as well as future builds... I'd say that's definitely a bird in the hand. Stephen B.

I can certainly see VR for some applications and I've been a fan of it for years and have at times purchased the latest thing. But for flight I've never been that partial to VR because of the inability to see what my hands are doing. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the latest delve into VR... With that being said, I'd be more interested in what becomes of MS Hololens and it's applications.... now there's a technology I just might be able to wrap my head around... pun intended. Stephen B.

And we have the opportunity to influence those changes as UNIGINE continues their version 2 trek. HiFlyer... know anything about 3D engines? Want to join the eval team? PM me. Stephen B. For me... I'm perfectly fine with 20 fps as long as it remains consistent and smooth. When running the Port Angeles tech demo my system keep things up above 40 and higher, often topping out at 70 fps... a little stuttering was noticed in some area, but certainly not a game stopper and more than likely can be fixed. My point is... the Port Angeles demo has quite a bit of detail to include clouds and rain effects and the immersion was fantastic.... I couldn't really tell the difference when the frame rates dropped down to 40 or were as high as 70 fps... and that's what I'm talking about. I believe the threshold should never dip below the frame rate that takes away from the immersion. Some say that's 18 fps, some say it's 20 and others say higher... is there a consensus or actual fact as to how many frames per second are enough to maintain immersion of flying? How about you codechris, interested in playing around with the UNIGINE eval kit? PM me.... Stephen B.

For those that may not be aware, the NGFS SIM-Posium has been working closely with UNIGINE Sim in gaining access to their Evaluation Kit to determine the overall ability of the engine to be used for the purpose of creating a next generation flight simulator. We now have access to that Kit, through September 30th of this year. Most of you are familiar with the UNIGINE Valley tech demo but may not be aware that UNIGINE also has a division within their company dedicated to Simulation and Training, this is known as UNIGINE Sim. Today the NGFS SIM-Posium received an email that included a UNIGINE 2 2015 roadmap, within the roadmap are clear evidence that UNIGINE is dedicated to the simulation world. You can view that roadmap below. In addition we have been asked to "gather requirements from a Flight Sim perspective". In order to do that we need anyone who has an interest as well as some experience regarding the use of 3D engines, whether it be Unity, Unreal, or others to volunteer their capabilities and join the UNIGINE Sim Evaluation Team. This is our opportunity as a community to actually influence a major 3D Engine company to incorporate the features that we need most within a 3D engine for the purpose of building future flight simulators. If you're interested in joining the Evaluation Team please PM me and I will contact you to gather the information needed to set you up as a team member. You do not need to be a member of the NGFS SIM-Posium to participate. The only requirements are that you are willing to work as a team to determine the strengths and weakness of the UNIGINE Sim 3D engine in regards to it's use as a bases to create a flight simulator as well as providing suggestions as to the requirements needed from a flight simulation perspective and are willing to submit or participate in the submitting of a report as to your findings. If you are aware of others who may be interested please let them know of this project. Stephen Borick Hi Stephen, Our meeting has been pushed back until tomorrow, so I will follow up tomorrow mid-morning regarding the Helicopter Demo. Below is our roadmap for 2015. Again it would be interesting to gather requirements from a Flight Sim perspective from your Evaluators. Do you know when this data will be compiled? Thanks! Beth 2015 UNIGINE 2 ROADMAP Q2 PBR Materials in DirectX 11 mode The full C++ API (same level of access as for UnigineScript) Q3 Increased Z-buffer precision Improved AA Asset Browser System Improved Editor UI Improved data streaming Q3/Q4 Improved performance with the new rendering pipeline DirectX 12 / Vulkan support Improved clouds Improved water rendering Revamped terrain tools Improved usability Support for Geo Coordinates Support for Vector Data Improved multi-channel synchronization Q4 Forest Tools Round Earth Model Geoid model for the planet Geo coordinates for the terrain Modified light scattering model Integration with LVC Game or similar library

This is most definitely a step in the right direction... it took quite awhile to read through the comments posted since I hit the hay last night. And the majority of the conversations were positive. dtmicro... I sent you a PM, please get back to me when you can. And thank you for your most generous offer. HiFlyer... in answer to your question regarding cities... maybe this will help... HERE scroll down to Urban Planning I also received an email from UNIGINE Sim regarding their road map for 2015. What is most exciting is that they would like our input regarding flight simulation and the requirements that we would like to see. That's good stuff... we as a community could actually have influence on the direction of a major 3D Engine! I'll create a new topic announcing the road map as well as ask for volunteers to evaluate the engine... with the only requirements being that they are willing to work together as a team and report back their findings either here on AVSIM or on the SIM-Posium. Here's the email. Hi Stephen, Our meeting has been pushed back until tomorrow, so I will follow up tomorrow mid-morning regarding the Helicopter Demo. Below is our roadmap for 2015. Again it would be interesting to gather requirements from a Flight Sim perspective from your Evaluators. Do you know when this data will be compiled? Thanks! Beth 2015 UNIGINE 2 ROADMAP Q2 PBR Materials in DirectX 11 mode The full C++ API (same level of access as for UnigineScript) Q3 Increased Z-buffer precision Improved AA Asset Browser System Improved Editor UI Improved data streaming Q3/Q4 Improved performance with the new rendering pipeline DirectX 12 / Vulkan support Improved clouds Improved water rendering Revamped terrain tools Improved usability Support for Geo Coordinates Support for Vector Data Improved multi-channel synchronization Q4 Forest Tools Round Earth Model Geoid model for the planet Geo coordinates for the terrain Modified light scattering model Integration with LVC Game or similar library

dtmicro You have at least got to go onto the SIM-Posium and download the tech demo... I think you'd be rather surprised at the results as I saw similar scenes as well as lighting effects as I was moving around the 50 km2. at the very least look HERE Just in case you missed this... cuz I added it as an edit previously... When I get back To my computer I'll send you a roadmap that will be of interest to SIM-posium as it pertains to terrain tools and GIS data support.- Unigine Sim Support

Good stuff.... and yes copied and pasted along with several other items of worth from this thread... This is indeed the kind of information that is helpful. n4gix... we may have met... if you recall the meeting where one guy raised his hand and asked if MS intended to include force feedback, that was me. My wife just the other day cut up my T-Shirt for rags, but saved me the logo. OH... and I did send Bruce an email that very day... Stephen B. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ dtmicro... are you sure you don't want to take a look at the UNIGINE Sim eval kit? We have access until Sept 30th Here's a piece of an email I received from the UNIGINE Sim rep just yesterday... When I get back To my computer I'll send you a roadmap that will be of interest to SIM-posium as it pertains to terrain tools and GIS data support.

I was invited and attended the "Microsoft Flight Simulation Community Summit" in 2005.... And, before you ask... don't. My contributions to the flight simulator community will remain anonymous. ( I wasn't going to include this tidbit, but my wife insisted).

ad hominem arguments - first of all I wasn't the person who first used that term our moderator was... so you've just stated that he doesn't know how to use the phrase. (a prime example of taking something out of context and using it to do harm.) Second... "little or no credibility", "I really wish you would stop using these terms unless you understand what they really mean" Both of those statements are demeaning.... and other statements that you've made were most certainly meant to defame de·fame dəˈfām/ verb damage the good reputation of (someone); slander or libel. "he claimed that the article defamed his family" synonyms: libel, slander, malign, cast aspersions on, smear, traduce, give someone a bad name, run down, speak ill of, vilify, besmirch, stigmatize,disparage, denigrate, discredit, decry; More li·bel ˈlībəl/ noun 1. LAW a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation. Nothing, I've done... no matter my abilities or my financial contribution (which by the way is far more than you'll know) deserved such retribution by you or any other member of this forum. There is no excuse for such actions. Stephen B.

codechris, If you've read through this entire thread as well as the previous threads I was accused of thinking that AVSIM was not good enough to discuss the possibilities of a next generation flight simulator.... a clear case of "darned if you do and darned if you don't". It was also suggested in another comment that I make AVSIM my second home in order to gather the thoughts and opinions of the community regarding a next generation flight simulator... a clear case of "darned if you do and darned if you don't". Stephen B. Ahhh it's never to late! And... I'll have my people talk with your people. ^_^

ad hominem - short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character You're kidding right? If you would... please re-read every word in this thread and put yourself in my shoes. Stephen B.

No... I don't believe the thread has run it's course until no one is willing to post another thought regarding the development of a next generation flight simulator and getting more and more people involved. I for one am willing to continue that quest for at least a minimum of 6 months. Everyday, folks read this thread... perhaps it's the interest in the cock fight, perhaps it isn't. But it just may be that someone will read this entire thread and decide that they want to become a part of the movement to create a next gen sim. We've also enjoyed great discussions regarding the feasibility and how to approach a new flight simulator here in this thread and I encourage others to add their thoughts and opinions either here on AVSIM or over at the SIM-Posium. Now that the staff has stated that the topic is being monitored, perhaps we can behave ourselves and approach the topic logically and constructively. Stephen B.

Yes you can! Through gathering all interested persons to one central place and let the primary discussion be about the thoughts and interests that have been spread throughout the various forums through the years. The real challenge is getting past the skepticism and start believing in the possibilities.

Jim... pointing out that what I'm trying to do will be next to impossible... has never been the issue with me, but... when individuals are allowed to conjure up any abusive accusations that they can think of and defame who I am as a person... is beyond reproach and should never have been allowed to happen. Behavior and Your Actions: AVSIM’s goal is to provide an educational and entertainment resource for people with similar interests and a community that is fun to be part of by users from around the world. Your acts and words on AVSIM will not, in any way, infringe upon others enjoyment of the AVSIM site. Any acts of bigotry, profanity, or disregard for what is reasonably considered to be social “norms” will result in suspension or banning entirely. Freedom Of Speech: AVSIM is not a democracy, and there is no such thing as "Freedom of Speech" in our forums. If you believe that you are entitled to that freedom without restriction and that you should be able to do and say as you please, then reconsider... Please do NOT register. As far as calling upon big developers to partner with... I doubt that they would rally around the cause unless the flight simulator community showed a genuine interest in moving forward towards a new and improved flight simulator and away from their current bread & butter. I did send out a few invitations, but those who received them didn't even take the time to respond back. Let me reiterate... The NGFS SIM-Posium never had anything to do with me or the successful creation of a flight simulator from which I would profit. It had everything to do with the flight simulation community working together towards a common goal and moving the progression of flight simulation forward. If we could all put the bias and the negativity ( the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something ) aside, we really could work towards achieving a community driven flight simulator. As I've stated before, it's a matter of numbers... the number of folks working together to achieve what others are not willing to do. If the community is satisfied with what they have and the direction that flight simulation is going, which is the continuous use of old technologies... so be it. But.... if we as a community really do want to see the progression of flight simulation go forward, not only for us but for generations to come... then together we could make it happen. "...waiting for someone to just drop in..." was always the goal... it just appears that not many folks want to do that. Stephen B. PropheadX... if you're going to ask people to read my last 4 or so comments... also suggest that people read your comments and Luke's and judge for themselves. Perhaps rather than lock the thread before it gets out of hand, perhaps the "TERMS and Agreements" should be enforced. Your quoting of the statements on the SIM-Posium is the exact reaction that others have had about yours and others comments that have lead to the defamation of my character.... they stated their comments on the SIM-Posium rather than here on AVSIM, because it was safe to do so. Stephen B.

Boy is that calling the kettle black! Let me dissect that comment.... first... I am out of my depth, I knew from the get go that I didn't have the talent nor the skills to add to the discussion of creating a flight simulator or running a business on any intelligent level. Thus the reason for calling upon the community and the experts within the community to join in the discussion and lend their expertise. You would have known that if you had taken the time to read even the 4 Articles on the SIM-Posium. Throughout the SIM-Posium and through the threads here at AVSIM I have made that distinction over and over again. second... I have never disagreed with any of the statements made here on this thread or the previous thread. I have read them and encouraged the conversations regarding the aspects of creating a next generation flight simulator from any perspective... as a matter of fact I've PM a few of those whose insights clearly show their level of expertise to join in the discussion over at the SIM-Posium because we could really use that kind of direction and leadership. If anything, I have taken the time to clearly direct the attention away from accusations of who I am and my intention and tried to move the focus more towards the purpose of the NGFS SIM-Posium third... It's gotten to the stage where Stephen has needed to defend himself against the slanderous statements being made by people like yourself. If I am bitter, it has nothing to do with the success or failure of the SIM-Posium but rather the defamation of my character as an individual and a member of the flight simulator community. If you doubt that... go read some of your own posts and the posts of some others. If you do not clearly see the harm you are intentionally inflecting upon one individual, then you are both blind and pious. fourth... shouting, blame, anger.... more like defending and taken offensive to some of the disrespect shown by you and others. Apparently AVSIM allows anyone to slander anyone that they would like without any consequences. The priggish attitudes shown by a few has diminished the purpose, the comradery that was once predominate within the flight simulator community. It's appalling that there are those among us who are supposedly older, more mature, who can abandon all decency and respect towards others and then turn their so called pointing fingers away from themselves and cast the blame on the innocent. Shame on you... and others like you. Stephen B. Stop wondering and go read the 4 MUST READ ARTICLES over on the SIM-Posium... if you read anything at all over on the SIM-Posium read Then vs Now. You'll see what the SIM-Posium's unique viewpoint is.

Are you really that thick... and that willing to continue this bickering back and forth? Here, let me spell it out for you... My abilities was the capability of funding the creation and funding a website for the means of a community discussion regarding the future of flight simulation and the possibilities of creating a community driven flight simulator. Clear enough for you? For gawd sake read below if you really do (ooops there's that word "Do" again, hope I'm using it correctly) want to understand the reason behind the SIM-Posium, why I built it, and why I'm funding it... or... you can remain secure and happy in your self inflicted bliss. The Next Generation Flight Simulator SIM-Posium’s move is completed and you are all invited to become a part of the discussion geared towards the planning and development of a community driven flight simulator. You can find it by going to nexgenflightsim (you know the rest). The NGFS SIM-Posium Home Page provides you with access to Articles regarding why a next generation flight simulator is needed, Old technologies vs New, How we, as a community can work together to make a next generation flight simulator a possibility, as well as information regarding CrowdSourcing and how CrowdFunding can provide the means to accomplish the communities goals. There is no need to register to gain access to this information. The new NGFS Forum is where you can add your ideas, your opinions, your moans and your groans, your enthusiasm, and much more. You're invited to participate in the forums through registration. To access the forum, click on the Forum Menu on the Main menu bar... bookmark the forum to bypass the front portal... if you wish... and go directly to the NGFS Forum for frequent visits. New "Articles" announcements will be made in the forum, which you can read at your leisure. If you are at all interested in the future of consumer oriented flight simulation, you owe it to yourself to become a part of the NGFS SIM-Posium and part of the conversation. Your participation can lend to the overall consensus of what a next generation flight simulator should consist of, how it should be created, by whom, how and when. At the very least… hop on the site, read the 4 must reads and learn what the NGFS SIM-Posium is all about. It's important to know that the NGFS SIM-Posium is time sensitive. A minimum of six months has been allocated in order to gauge the "Will" of the flight simulation community and their willingness to start a movement that can grow towards the successful completion of a next generation flight simulator. The future of flight simulators can literally be in your hands.

Luke does not make a lot of valid points when it comes to who I am as a person... what he wrote was defaming, slanderous, and an outright attempt to discredit me as an individual. I think you may have misrepresented what I said as well... the attempt to create a website for the gathering of people to discuss the future of flight simulation wasn't about me as some people have tried to imply that it was all for my benefit.... it was about all of us working together. And... as I stated many times, some people would agree and some wouldn't. I never faulted anyone for not wanting to be a part of the discussion. CYXR, have you taken the time to read through this thread... even the very first post? Have you taken the time to read the Articles on the SIM-Posium? If not... please do before you make a statement as the one you did. Again... making such comments without the correct information boils down to just someone who is shooting from the hip. In this case a bit of the Pied Piper syndrom. Stephen B.

You know something LUKE... until you actually take the time to read through these threads... and the articles that I posted on the SIM-Posium... instead of around them... you simply do not know what you're talking about. READ THIS CAREFULLY.... I am not a programmer... never said I was and have stated many times that I'm not. I'm just a person who made a suggestion that we as a community work together to bring about something constructive and then built a place for us to do that. No it wasn't an ego thing... it was about organizing and keeping track of ideas, information. I did DO something... something that was within my abilities and my means, hoping that others would bring their talents, their abilities and DO likewise. For you to so rudely and crudely dismiss my efforts and to attempt to defame me is above reproach and is morally wrong. I hope you're proud of yourself Stephen B.

Luke... Like I said your ludicrous and rude.... I'm not a bit offended by anyone that slings a bunch of crap and makes a jack donkey out themselves and then apologies and goes right on doing the same thing. I never once said that I could create a flight simulator... not once... I offered the community a place to join together and formulate a plan and then let the smart ones and even the self proclaimed smart ones take the opportunity to work together and use their knowledge to do something great. You don't want to do that... that's fine, but to use what intelligence you have to sling muck at someone else just goes a long way to showing me, and at the same time others, what you're really made of. Little wonder the flight simulator community as a whole stays away from anything that might be controversial... I mean... it's like walking up to a complete stranger and saying "I've got an idea... by the way...go ahead and string me up". Enough is enough. You guys out their holding the ropes and ready to slap the horse on the behind... just never did get it. It isn't about me or what I can do... it's always been about what we can do as a community. I have never claimed anything that you guys are ready to hang me for... and yet you persist in your ignorance because for some unknown reason it makes you feel more like a man. It's people like you who are killing the opportunities available to us who are members of the flight simulator community. Who in their right mind would ask us to help them create a next generation flight simulator even if they came with multiple degrees in business, developing, programming and a bank vault full of money. Why would they... just so you can stick their head on a pike and dance around a fire, screaming your heads off telling everyone else that you're right? Well, I hate to break it to ya... but you're not right... and unfortunately it will be people who like to dangle the rope and dance around the fires who will kill flight simulation for us all. Another 10 years from now FSX, P3D, X-Plane and even DTGs simulation will be long surpassed, unfortunately it won't be by some fantastic new flight simulator. You know what the scariest part about all of this... you guys who are holding the ropes are real proud of yourselves... well you'd better be, because I'm pretty sure no one else is. Stephen Borick

"I think that's a definitive statement from Outerra." I as well... exactly what I wanted to know. And, quite frankly, what I expected. Or any community group such as a thread established here on AVSIM... although I'm pretty much convinced that isn't going to happen... but what if it did? Also, I wanted to know the amount of influence we as a flight simulator community would have in such a project. This is the jest of most project management, past and present: "Whether your idea is, big or small, we invite you to share them with us, however we cannot guarantee that anything discussed in this thread will make it into the final simulator." - DTG underline added As a flight simulator community, I still feel that we could, and ought to, come together and create something on our own terms... although I'm now very much aware that isn't necessarily the desire of the community as a whole. So, unfortunately we'll just have to be happy with what we have and satisfied with what we get. Stephen B.