Another dumb question from a dummy: :-) Inspired by Ian's trip around the world yesterday I tried to land in Innsbruck (LOWI) without using the charts.On final (with bad weather) suddenly some trees appeared through the clouds and even applying full thrust I didn't make it and crashed.;( My question is: What would be the correct procedure? Pressing TOGA or full thrust?RegardsThomas

Thomas, no such thing as a dumb question ;)Well, I

Hey Thomas, for your reference I posted a GPWS flow chart...http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/44234.gifSorry if you guys have already seen this, but it still makes me laugh!Jeff

Hi Thomas!In such a situation, where a fast reaction is essential for safe flight, you would not use the same procedure as during a go around which is initiated at 500 ft due to an unprepared cabin as an example.In your case, you (in a real cockpit either pilot, no pilot flying confirmation needed) would firewall the thrust levers and at the same time press either A/T disconnect switch. This would not be required if the AP and A/T were off, but if say the A/T was controlling airspeed the A/T would start pulling back on the levers if you didn't press the A/T disco switch and that would be deadly. If the AP was on, disconnect immediately and pull back until stick shaker occurs. Then release a little bit. The PLI (pitch limiter) will be your goal pitch attitude. Wings level.Note, this all would be done within a second or two. After this yoou continue with the standard G/A profile (flaps 20, gear up)You can press the GA switch, but remember, if the A/T is armed, it will reduce thrust from max thrust to GA thrust. This is not adviseable if you are still close to ground. So press it after you know you will make it or press it in the beginning but press the A/T disco switch immediately and make sure the thrust levers are still fully forward.I hope this helped you a bit and wasn't too confusing.Regards,Mark

Not too confusing to me, anyway...Sounds logical to me! If you are in a near-emergency situation requiring a go-around, I wouldn't wait for the A/T to move the throttles into position either. My knuckles would be a bloody pulp from the panel in front of the throttles. Intricacies of the procedure aside, it does make sense for a pilot to manually control the aircraft in this situation - especially if the ground is fast approaching the aircraft. :)Plus - i'd never want to be on board an aircraft performing such a maneuver. Ugh!-Greg

Agreed with going to manual for such a situation, but the standard G/A profile calls for flaps 15, not 20.Once you've cleaned up and done the after take-off checks, don't forget the change of underwear!

"The PLI (pitch limiter) will be your goal pitch attitude."Slightly off topic, and probably more for the -800/-900, but....I learned a few days ago that some of the later NG's have a pitch limit indicator which appears when the flaps are up if the aircraft approaches stall speed (Normally, the PLI, or "eyebrows" as they are sometimes called, only appears with the flaps extended).I believe these same aircraft have an AOA indicator which has a red limit mark which is modified for mach number. Cheers.Ian.

Whoops, my mistake.For some very odd reason I thought this post was in the 767PIC forum! :-)Yes, on the 737 you go immediately from flaps 30 to flaps 15.On the 767 it would be flaps 20.Thanks for correcting that,Mark

Hi Mark,well, that's (almost) exactly what I did: disco A/T, full thrust, pull up up up, retract flaps, gear up). The joystick started shaking and ...crash;( The only difference is that I retracted the flaps completely...well, at least that was my intention...crashed before retracting them.I think that slamming the throttle forward would be a normal reaction, but I would like to know if that's the correct (official) procedure.BTW, it wasn't something like

In an evasive maneuver, anything you do to survive is official :-)No seriously, in these cases (any whoop whoop GPWS warning) airlines (or at least one ;-) ) will drop any team work action and says: the pilot that first recognises the warning will react. If both react, no problem. But its not a "Pilot flying", "Pilot handling" or whatever the term, who has to react. Team work takes longer (and is of course 400% more efficient than single pilot operation or non CRM operation) and sometimes that extra time can be unsafe. As soon as the aircraft has passed the MSA or the threat is gone, team work will be "in command" again and the reason for the warning will be checked, as well as the further actions.Note, even faulty GPWS warnings have to adhered to, even if you KNOW that you can't be flying into a mountain... (That's what all crews thought that had a CFIT)GPWS won't always save you, as you have noticed :-)Let's hope PMDG will be able to implement EGPWS in a later release!Regards,Mark