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low framerate in PIC767

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Hi,I'm sorry if this been mentioned before, but I didn't find any definite answer how to sort this out in other posts.Bought PIC767 and installed with MSFS2002. I'm very impressed by this addon, but the framerate is very low, particularly in external view. I'm getting about one third to half framerate compared to stock MSFS2002 planes. The screen resolution/color depth change doesn't seem to have much difference.Examples (SanJoseIntl takeoff on runway ready for takeoff, external view at 1600*1200*32, locked at 30fps): -all visuals max: PIC767 5-8fps, stock MSFS airliner 10-16fps-all visuals min: PIC767 15+fps, stock airliner 30fps I assume that the detail (polygon count) for PIC767 is probably much higher, and therefore the results....or it has something to do with PIC767 textures? I'll get the same fps as stock planes in PIC767 only if I decrease the plane visuals of PIC767 to bare minimum..... Also, I have an occasional lockup/crash in PIC767 (some error of type "can't load/register controllers something" etc.)I was considering to purchase Wilco's Airport add-ons; now I don't even think about that, because I'd need like 3GHz Pentium4/GF4600 in order to have some fun with it; the stock airports are dense enough to bring framerates to <5 even as the are, particularly with PIC767 addon.Btw, would I see any difference if I'd load PIC767 in MSFS2000 (have it as well, but not installed)?Sorry for longer post, thx for advice (if there is some)...DaveMy rig(P1.6A/IntelD850MVL/512RDRAM/GF3Ti200) isn't that slow neither (6232 points in 3DMark2001) compared to this sim original reviewer's PII450/Viper550 rig; I'm using WinXP with NVRefreshTool utility for 75Hz refresh at 1600*1200 resolution; have the latest nVidia drivers.

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Yep, this was mentioned ad nauseum when the FS2002 patch came out, but it has been quiet for some time concerning it. So don't feel bad.Anyway, the problem is that Wilco did not update their visual models and the PIC Team did update the panel. Because the Wilco visual models use BGL's (Scenery files), they are crap on framerates. What I strongly suggest, and everyone else will suggest, is to get the POSKY visual models and use them instead. Look for Lee Hetherington's (aka, ilh)PIC-POSKY V3 merge file. It will help melde the POSKY visuals with the PIC panel and air files.As far as the lockups, don't know. I've not seen that before myself. You may want to search the PIC forum here at AVSIM. If no one else has seen it, then ask. Have you installed the patch found on Wilco's site? Is it the correct patch, the one for FS2002. Do not install the version 1.1 patch as it is for FS2000.As for installing PIC in FS2000, you can, but it will be difficult. It will want to uninstall the FS2002 version before installing in FS2000. I had done it (having it in both FS2000 and FS2002) a while back during the beta for the PIC patch. However, I did it by manually copying all the files to their correct place with the help of the developers (PIC Team). If you do get it installed in FS2000, make sure you have the correct patch for it (version 1.1). Realize, it will look and perform no differently than in FS2002.

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Thanks a lot for reply, KenG.I think you've got it absolutely right; I downloaded "POSKY" KLM 767-300 and tried that out, the frame rate improved dramatically......I'm not sure how to merge the files as you mentioned above yet, but when I launch the 767 Flights (from Select Flight Menu) and then I swap the airplane, I have the PIC panels and Posky external model.... with framerate about 3x better. The Posky model looks about the same as the PIC767 model.....I'm going to find out about aircraft.cfg merge now.Thx again!regardsDave

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Don't know if it works under XP, but for those not comfortable with adding lines and tweaking config files, it is very worth while. I didn't use it as I had already merged the files by the time Lee came out with the file. However, I had used his merge file for the POSKY version 2 767's and it worked very well and was easy.

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Hey Dave,Yes, you would see a difference if you installed fs2000 and ran the panel there...but not a good difference! Fs2002 is lightyears better than 2000, and the panel with the FS2k2 patch adds new functionality that you won't get in 2000.Using the POSKY aircraft with the panel is the only way to go (IMHO). Do not use the aircraft the came with the panel! Trust me on this one.A few things to try to resolve errors in the PIC panel:Turn off Tool Tips in the General prefs.If you are getting the errors when playing in the FMC, it could be bad data in the FMC files, download the updated FMC data off Wilco's site.I have not seen the performance degredation you are seeing with the panel, and I'm currently running an XP 1700+ (OC'd to 1800) with 640 PC133 SDRAM and a GF2 TI 64 and Win98se. My standard benchmark is sitting on Simflyer's KATL runway 8R external view. Panning around the aircraft, I get 15-17 when I'm looking at the terminals (Lotsa' PAI aircraft there). When I'm looking down the runway, the FPS is 20 (and locked at 20). Inside the cockpit, its just about the same. All the sliders are not maxed, but high enough to drop your jaw when viewing the FS2002 world! :)Regards,Steve Dra

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Thx for link, couldn't find it before ... downloaded and run the merge setup; it seems to be working correctly, I briefly verified if all files are present and think they are. I might do some manual tweaking today to adjust name, maybe add more 767's with different paint schemes...I flew the flight Brussels-Paris from PIC flights yesterday; it starts with default BA PIC767, but I switched to POSKY 767-300ER (the default single plane I got after merging 1 aircraft - Posky KLM painted 767)and completed the flight fine. When on approach to CDG, I tried to adjust landing runway as instructed by ATC control from RW08R (loaded in route automatically by PIC) to RW08L; the FMC repored "not in database"; so I couldn't use ILS. I'll try the same flight with original PIC plane and see if I'll get the same error... As I said, the framerate improved and sim is now pretty smooth in external view, even when I enable all detail....:)Btw, is there a way to load Posky plane in PIC767 flights as default, or the plane-switch after flight is loaded is fine? One more thing; I noticed that with PIC767 planes, even if I actually decrease all plane detail in MSFS2002 options, the visual detail won't change (I thought otherwise before)...RegardsDave>Glad to help. >>If you need Lee's merger file, try this link: >>http://www.sls.lcs.mit.edu/ilh/fs/PICPOSKY3.zip >>It is the easiest way to get PIC's panel and air/cfg files >merged with the POSKY visuals.

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Hello Steve,not planning the MSFS2000 (remember the framerates problems) test, with the Posky model it's just perfect in MSFS2002. I'm enjoying MSFS as I never did before now with PIC767&Posky loaded.....As you mentioned, I have no degradation in panel (cockpit view?) in PIC767 neither, only spot view. Now with Posky model this is fixed, and I get spot framerates equal to other planes. It improved from some 5-8fps to about 10-15fps, depending on density of scenery etc. The internal/external framerates are now about the same, as with your setup.I can't resist to put all the detail and visual effects on maximum, since it looks absolutely incredible, and framerates stay acceptable for most of the time, even in very dense areas like Paris downtown etc :) The only real framekiller seem to be certain clouds now.Regarding the errors I've seen; they happened during simulation startup only; haven't seen it again since yesterday yet.Thx for suggestions too.Dave>Hey Dave, >Yes, you would see a difference if you installed fs2000 and >ran the panel there...but not a good difference! Fs2002 is >lightyears better than 2000, and the panel with the FS2k2 >patch adds new functionality that you won't get in 2000. >>Using the POSKY aircraft with the panel is the only way to >go (IMHO). Do not use the aircraft the came with the panel! >Trust me on this one. >>A few things to try to resolve errors in the PIC panel: >Turn off Tool Tips in the General prefs. >>If you are getting the errors when playing in the FMC, it >could be bad data in the FMC files, download the updated FMC >data off Wilco's site. >>I have not seen the performance degredation you are seeing >with the panel, and I'm currently running an XP 1700+ (OC'd >to 1800) with 640 PC133 SDRAM and a GF2 TI 64 and Win98se. >>My standard benchmark is sitting on Simflyer's KATL runway >8R external view. Panning around the aircraft, I get 15-17 >when I'm looking at the terminals (Lotsa' PAI aircraft >there). When I'm looking down the runway, the FPS is 20 >(and locked at 20). Inside the cockpit, its just about the >same. All the sliders are not maxed, but high enough to >drop your jaw when viewing the FS2002 world! :) >>Regards, >Steve Dra

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