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oqvist

The performance fixes for the 600/700 for free thank you

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This is from another thread that was locked before I could get a reply. So I thought I could post it here and hear what you think about this?Here it

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Guest georg

Actually you are looking into it a bit differently than I do. You have the PMDG 600-700 product and also the service updates for free that PMDG has developed for it. The 800 and 900 is a new product and as a BONUS, it also upgrades the 600 and 700 planes to make you more happy. Would it be better if they didnt do anything with 600 700 at all? I think not. So, when you bought the first product you knew what you can expect and you know what you paid for. You didnt pay for the total new development that has been done with 800 and 900.

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There have been no updates made to the models of the 736/7, performance of that product remains the same regardless if you purchased the 738/9 update or not.

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But from what I have read the vc fixes is going to be available for 800/900 customers in a specific patch? If not what is it that patch includes???

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Guest tmetzinger

>There have been no updates made to the models of the 736/7,>performance of that product remains the same regardless if you>purchased the 738/9 update or not.John,I think he's referring to the increased performance of the sim as a result of the VC and panel optimizations you made for the 800/900.Having said that, I think that if one wants the new panel features for the 6/700(EFIS/MAP, TCAS, better performance) that are the result of NEW DEVELOPMENT by PMDG, one should pay for them.

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Guest Ray CYYZ

"Did you enjoy your FREE MSFS 2000 performance fix when it shipped?"The answer is obvious."No I did not, but Microsoft was nice enough to at least knock something off the price of the new version that adds lots of new features."Is it PMDG's fault your computer is not fast enough? Should they ship you free hardware? Those of us who didn't like the performance saved our pennies and bought new hardware.Ray

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Ray you are missing my point. To proove it I will post my sig and yes it do run FS 2004 just fine. Antec 550W Truepower2,3 Gig BARTON9800 PRO 1281 Gig of Corsair XMS 3200 memoryAbit NF7-S rev 2.002 WD SATA 150 10000 RPM Raptors in RAID 0 mode.1 WD 800 JB ATA 100 7200 RPM 8mb special edition No it

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Guest tmetzinger

>Because of the similarities between the 600/700 product, and>the 800/900 product, PMDG is in a position to leverage some of>the work done on the 800/900 product to improve upon the>600/700 product. That doesn't change the fact that additional>work has been done, and they are 100% justified in charging>for it.>That's the best explanation I've heard so far. PMDG is absolutely legally/ethically/morally OK in not making the new panel available for 600/700 users for free.Bottom line, it's $23.00 USD, it's well worth it, everyone should buy it, even if (like me), you pretty much only fly the -700.

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Guest rcarlson123

So you think that you did not get what you paid for with the 600/700? Many here, including myself, would disagree ... but that is for you to decide for yourself, since only you can determine or know what is an acceptable level of performance for an add-on aircraft installed in your specific computer.The fact remains, however, that PMDG had stopped actively developing improvements to the 600/700 product. Obviously, given the size of the customer base, the awards that have been won, etc., the majority would agree with PMDG's assessment that the 600/700 product was complete and at least on par with the product it is advertised and sold as.The fact that PMDG has taken advantage of similarities between the 800/900 and 600/700 products in order to make available (via purchase of the 800/900 product) further improvements (NOT bug fixes) to the 600/700 product, is really nothing more than evidence of their good business sense. They certainly don't "owe" those enhancements to owners of the 600/700 product ... at least not at zero charge. It can't be stated any simpler than to say that additional work was done (during development of the 800/900), consequently resulting in improvements to the 600/700 product, potentially taking it to a level above what you paid for, and they are entitled to compensation for that work. Period.P

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Guest CaptTate

>Also I was very surprised the VC wasn

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Guest Paul Heaney

No need to add to this, Ross covered it well.

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Well if you can track my postings you may see that I from day one have had trouble with the performance of the 600/700 and haven

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Guest CaptTate

>As your system runs fine it

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Guest rcarlson123

>If I pick another example. How about Microsoft delivering a>patch to improve performance in FS 2004? Would you gladly pay>for that? It only affects performance, texture loading>problems andother bugs found in FS 2004?>>You can pay to download the patch or buy the full product FS>2004 including service pack 1 ;)This example is flawed. For one, I doubt you'll ever see MS release an update that ONLY improves performance for a product that is no longer in development. And if they did, I'm sure they would charge for it. The closest example I can think of is when they released the "Windows Plus" packs that added features, tweaks, and games to their operating system. I believe those Plus Packs were about $20 each.The Microsoft Service Packs that you refer to are released primarily to distribute bug fixes and security patches. If they happen to have performance enhancements, then great, but that's not the reason for their existence.If Microsoft released an update for FS9 that ONLY improved frame rates, and did NOT fix any bugs or security problems, and made it available for free, then that would indicate that the MSFS management team one day said "Hey, let's take a handfull of programmers and have them spend some time working on frame rate improvements for FS9, even though the general concensus is that the sim performs just fine. And, we'll give it away." Not likely.The only way I could see that happening is if the majority of FS9 buyers were complaining about horrid performance in the sim. In that case, MS would have to admit that they did not deliver the product as advertised, and would have to bite the bullet and improve the performance for free. That's not the case with FS9, or with the PMDG 737 600/700.>And it

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Guest Marv

Ross,The problem with that statement is that you HAVE to buy the 600/700 to make the 800/900 work. It's not a new product, it's an upgrade to the exhisting product which includes some enhancements that will work in the 600/700. (new 2d panel, FMC enhancements, TCAS, are the big ones) I don't care how you spin it. Hence the mis-understanding. If people really want a complete package, they have to buy both. The 600/700 is missing some features that some some feel should have been part of the original package. It's the presentation of the situation is what is confusing. If it were a complete new package, there would be no mis-understanding. Not that many vendors sell something like this as an upgrade. A few have. Sales would have reflected the differance also. Not as many would but the 800/900 by itself. Those that have been following the PMDG product's for some time I'm sure may have a different opinion, but for those who just came in the door, have an uneasy feeling about all of this. I bought both packages to get the 600/700 flying the way I want it. I'm one that could care less about the 800/900, if I wanted to fly a bigger plane, I would fly a bigger plane. I got used to the idea, so will others.Marv

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Guest rcarlson123

>Ross,>>The problem with that statement is that you HAVE to buy the>600/700 to make the 800/900 work. It's not a new product, it's>an upgrade to the exhisting product which includes some>enhancements that will work in the 600/700. (new 2d panel, FMC>enhancements, TCAS, are the big ones) I don't care how you>spin it. Hence the mis-understanding. If people really want a>complete package, they have to buy both. The 600/700 is>missing some features that some some feel should have been>part of the original package. It's the presentation of the>situation is what is confusing. If it were a complete new>package, there would be no mis-understanding. Not that many>vendors sell something like this as an upgrade. A few have. Hi Marv, since you didn't quote my post, I'm not sure what statement you are referring to when you say "The problem with that statement ..." Can you clarify?There is no dispute that the 800/900 product requires that you own the 600/700 and thus it can certainly be called an upgrade as opposed to a stand-alone product. Either way, it's a product. Either way, they put time into it and deserve to be compensated. Charging for software upgrades is a common and fully legitimate practice.Clearly, there are two camps here. One camp says that the 600/700 product is not what it is advertised to be, and thus any performance increases gained during development of the 800/900 product should be given for free to those not wishing to buy the 800/900 product. That logic is sound, no doubt.The other camp says that the 600/700 product is just fine the way it is, and worth the money paid for, and lives up to it's advertising. Some members of this camp, such as myself, feel that the 600/700 exceeds what it is advertised as, and is worth MORE than was paid for it. This is also sound logic.Which camp is right? Neither. Both. It's up to PMDG to decide. Apparently, they have decided based on market reaction, average consumer feedback, etc., that camp two is right, and have thus halted further service updates (for bug fixes, performance increases, or otherwise) for that product. Given the overall positive reputation of PMDG and the 600/700 product, I think they are spot-on with that decision.>Sales would have reflected the differance also. Not as many>would but the 800/900 by itself. Those that have been>following the PMDG product's for some time I'm sure may have a>different opinion, but for those who just came in the door,>have an uneasy feeling about all of this. It's an interesting exercize to consider how many people would buy the 800/900 if it didn't require the 600/700 or if it didn't include improvements to the 600/700. I personally don't think there would be much difference in sales volume, but who knows. You seem to suggest that a significant number of people are buying the 800/900 only to bring the 600/700 up to the level they THOUGHT they were getting when they originally bought the 600/700. I can't agree. I think most people are buying the 800/900 for the new features ... whether they will experience those new features via flying the 600, 700, 800 or 900 variant is irrelevant. Either way, they are paying for new features (an upgrade, like you said) as they well should.>I bought both packages to get the 600/700 flying the way I>want it. I'm one that could care less about the 800/900, if I>wanted to fly a bigger plane, I would fly a bigger plane. This is a bit vague ... are you saying that you bought the 800/900 in order to get the 600/700 flying as well as you thought it would when you first bought it? Or are you saying that you bought the 800/900 in order to get the additional FMC functionality, TCAS, VC functionality, etc that you've always wanted for the 600/700? When you say "... to get the 600/700 flying the way I want it" I don't know what that means exactly. In other words, do you feel that you did not get your money's worth when you bought the 600/700?If so, I believe you are in the minority if that's your true purpose for buying the 800/900 product, but you and I can only speculate on that. Either way, it doesn't matter. In my view, and in PMDG's view, you got what you paid for when you bought the 600/700 (along with the free updates to 1.3) and thus any improvements included in the 800/900 are an upgrade, as you say, and many software companies justifiably and rightfully charge for upgrades.

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"It's not a new product, it's an upgrade to the exhisting product" It certainly IS a new product in and of itself. It's just that the requirements imposed require the 600-700 base to install it. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of it being a product to itself. Business choices are beyond the realm of discussion on this forum...[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

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Think of it more as an expansion pack. Its not uncommon to have expansion packs made available for PC games.

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Guest Daniel Pimentel
Yes but to me that explanation/excuse isn

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Guest Marv

My post was an observation. Others agree with me. It's ok, I'm not mad. I know business. PMDG is making it work. If it were a poor product they wouldn't. But, I never said it was a bad product. I like the plane. I stand by what I said. I bought the 800/900 to get the 600/700 working as "I" think it should have to start with. Matter of fact, I didn't buy it until I heard about the "Upgrade". I wouldn't have if it were not for that. What I didn't know at the time, is that I would have to pay for it. Oh Well, that's the way it goes. What's done is done. Now, if I can get my problems with it solved..........I will be another happy PMDG flyer, Ready to recommend the "products". So......the way I am looking at this now is this: "The tech. support has been excellent. NOW THATS what's worth the extra bucks in my book." you can quote that if you like. I fly some other very nice aircraft. This isn't my first. Some aren't even in the market place. My standards are different, but I've been doing this along time. Marv

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