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ShezA

Does anybody know how to download from:

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http://www.indigocactus.com/Flightsim/AirI...adseaplanes.htmThank you Kellym for directing me to this site. They have some beautiful classic birds there that I'd like to download, aspecially the J2F6 "Duck".Only problem is that I can't download without entering a user name and password. However, when I went to register, a message tells me that registering is not necessary other than just sending them an email.I have done this, with no reply, and I still can't download.So, what has this bubble-head done wrong THIS time!Help!Heather

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So sorry, Heather, for directing you to a site where you couldn't download (I should have tried it first, but I try not to download when I'm at work :>)Here's another place you CAN get the Duck (same duck) from:http://www.dimstar.net/files/fs_panel.phpAlso available here:http://www.simviation.com/fs2000vintage10.htmHope this helps (I'm kind of a search fanatic, so it's always fun to try and find something on the web).

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Thank you Kellym!I'll keep your "fanatacism" in mind next time I'm trying to find something. I'm on my way now to download a Duck. Great!How about a Grumman Goose.Sheesh! Sounds like I have a thing for waterfowl!Thanks again!Heather

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>How about a Grumman Goose. Whew! You really know how to challenge a guy.Here's a CF2 model (AFAIK, these ought to work in FS2002, but the gurus here can tell us the details): http://www.geocities.com/parrot_head4life/cfs2.htmlThere's an FS '98 version here:http://flightsimmers.net/aeroswine/but I don't have *any* idea if these work in FS2K2 (my hunch is no, but there may also be some gurus who could tell us how to modify it to work).I can't find any 2000/2002 versions of this plane, although there apparently is a terrific recent version of it for Flight Unlimited (sigh).

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Wow! You ARE good!Downloading them now. I do believe the CFS2 aircraft will work with FS2002 as I have a few that worked fine already, such as the FW200 Condor. I believe you have to remove a few files but that's it.I hope these work out better than the Duck did :(Looks really nice for a FS2000 airplane, flares and lands nicely too, but that float has a BIG hole in it because the plane immediately sank! :-eekI'll work with it though. Perhaps there's a guru around here who can coach me on the use of contact points in the config.file.I don't give up easily when I want something.Thanks again KellyHeather

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Gazzareth is working on a Mallard for 2k2.

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Hmmm, I'm pretty sure someone in the Aircraft design forum will know about this. I'd like to know myself, so maybe I'll drift over to there after this and ask the question.Hope you got out before it sank !

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I haven't got an answer yet from the other forum, but after studying the MS SDK I'm of the opinion the Goose will not sink like the Duck, as there are type 4 (float) contact points in that plane's aircraft.cfg file.If so, then the answer for the duck is just to enter similar type 4 contact points. I'll play with it tonight (it's terrible to have to work all day. LOL!) but if you get it working first let me know.

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Thanks eko,I just sent them a THIRD email trying to get signed in with a user name and password so that I can access their downloads. Nice site, but you can't download anything!Cheers!Heather

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I did manage to get the Duck floating (and flying) so if anyone is interested I can mail them the aircraft.cfg (or point them in the direction to make the appropriate changes).

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I really doubt they have anything there that you can't get somewhere else. I hear they download ac from other sites and then post them on their own site. They was a post about it over at the Flightsim.com FS2002 forum. They have both my 707-320 and DC-3 there and I didn't upload them there! Only to Avsim, Simviation, and Flightsim.com.

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I gave up on "Indigo." Never did get a reply, even after three emails. I rarely speak derogatorily about anyone, generally keeping my opinions to myself, but if I had paid to be a member there, I wonder where they might have gone on vacation with it since it's dang sure that no one is around to answer the mail!I finally managed to track down, elsewhere, the planes they had that interested me; with exception of the blue "Duck." To heck with it, I'll just paint the thing myself.This does bring up a post I was just about to submit until I looked into this one, regarding legal terminology, but I'll take that to a new post.Thanks guys!HeatherThe propeller is there to keep the pilot cool. Think not? Watch how much you sweat when it stops unexpectedly. ;)

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You do not seem to be aware that this website operator actually post files without the permission of Authors. The website operator simply collect files from other file servers and post them whether the Authors even know about it and agree to this action or not ... like some other website operators who are widely considered to be 'low-life'. Posting files this way is not even remotely the same as Authors choosing to upload files to that server, or other reputable file libraries such as that run by Avsim.com or FlightSim.com who provide other valuable services too ... libraries from where AirIndigo.net got these files.In my own case, there are numerous files on that server in breach of my Copyrights and those of the other project Authors. Over the course of the last seven days, website operator Tim Miller -in spite of four (4) desist letters to date (as at the time of this posting) - has not taken any action to remove the files nor has he indicated he will comply at any point in the future. I'd also point out that I am not alone in my unsuccessful petitions on this same subject.By both his / AirIndigo.net's actions (i.e. posting files without Authors approval) - as well as his inactions (i.e. refusing to remove thise files on request), Mr Miller is violating both :(1) the express wishes; and (2) the Legal rights of Copyright holders - i.e. the Authors. In what appears to me to be a contradiction, the website operator states "It (your file) didn't get here by accident. It was selected because it deserved mention. ( We only give mention to those things that are positive. It saves time. )"The writer then goes on to further state :"About Copyright ! It is not the intention of any Member of AirIndigo to profit from the work of others. If you are and Author, Developer, or Designer and you would like obtain information on your Freeware on this Site please contact webmaster@airindigo.net"Despite the (apparent) hypocricy and clear hyperbole, what you actually seem to have is a website who seeks credibility (and profit) by posting and being associated with (without Authors approval) quality works by established Authors and Developers. The real trouble is, AirIndigo is doing it :(1) without the Authors permission; and (in some cases)(2) AGAINST their specific objections. If he (Mr Miller) is so blatantly disrespectful to the Authors rights and wishes you have to ask yourself just what he thinks of mere users (i.e. most readers of this message) in general ...This website operator, who elsewhere laments the spiralling cost of providing bandwidth (to host the files he is doing without the Authors permission) and then goes on to editorialise (sic) that users need consider (his) recovery of costs. I happen to accept the concept of cost recovery for running a file library but the point is IF the website operator posts your files without approval and then complains about the cost of doing so (although you can't get him to remove the files) ... then maybe you should start to ask yourselves what is the real motive for the website's existence ? As I see it, the real motive for the existence of AirIndigo.net is to profiteer from FS Freeware and Freeware Authors. Mr Miller and AirIndigo.net are NOT DEVELOPERS : they are riding on the backs of Freeware developers without their agreement and in spite of their objections. If you support websites like AirIndigo (Tim Miller, or whatever his real name actually is) ... then you are support those who profiteer from Freeware whilst they are contributing nothing. My view may be a bit jaundiced by having been on the receiving end of constant Copyright violations over quite a long time ... but I personally see very little diffence between the action of Airindigo.net and commercial developers like Carenado and others who have repeatedly ripped off my work and sold it for profit. My Freeware work - and that of many others - is now relatively limited because of those repeated Copyright violations and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see the writing is on the wall for other Authors whose rights are consciously being violated by the likes of Mr Miller and AirIndigo.net.Can I ask if you're comfortable with these violations of Copyright and if you can recognise the longer term implications of Mr Miller's / AirIndigo.net's actions ? Rgds,

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You spank 'em hard, Steve!!!Last month FSPlanet... who knows this month maybe airindigo.net.Regards,

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Here we have another blatant example of someone exploiting this hobby in a disreputable fashion for his own personal aggrandizement. Just swiping people

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Guys (and gals) I feel terrible having even posted a link to that site -- I was just doing a search and trying to find a place for Heather to get those files.I did post alternatives to that site (which turned out to provide the files for free) but now I wish I had spent even a tiny amount of time investigating what was up. At the very least if I had found it was a pay site I would not have posted the link, as I am very much against pay sites in general (speaking as someone who maintains their own site, ad-free, at a cost of a few hundred dollars a year).I will make sure, in the feature, that any links I post do not lead to such sites, and apologize for causing any grief to the authors of files who have been abused by this site. Just in passing it's interesting to note that the site mentioned here (which I won't grace again by even typing the name) hasn't responded to repeated emails from either Heather nor myself, so I'm not quite sure they're even in business anymore (good news to us all, I'm sure).

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So now we've had the unique perspective of two of the more prominent authors in the hobby... and guys who know something about having their property used without permission. The lesson here is simple: When we find a file we like at a site we're unfamiliar with, maybe we should first ask WHO is offering the file rather than simply being excited about what we found.Just an idea we all might keep in mind :-beerchug Edit: Sorry, Mike, I had a phone call that distracted me while writing this post, and your post came in before mine. This post certainly was not directed at you, and I'm sure most here know you were only trying to help a fellow simmer get to a site. Cheers

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Hey, Mike,Mate ... it's cool. It's just that I had been dealing with this issue and this website : because your post was timely I replied.It was the talented Aaron Swindle who gave me the head's up about this site about ten days ago after he went down the same unproductive path : Aaron is another Freeware developer apparently in the same boat as I am, and I assume others ...Tell you what, though, this does highlight a bigger issue many developers do think is quite important. Please indulge me ...Most substantial projects involve many hands : 3D model designers, animators, artists, gauge programmers, sound-smiths, researchers ... even flight dynamicists. Here you have diverse skills converging into one product from several folks who may all have individual rights and Copyrights in addition to the overall Project Copyright. Now, these Copyrights are never in conflict when the file is assembled and released BUT when those files are released they are uploaded to agreed file libraries like Avsim and FlightSim, to name the two leaders. The troubles arise when parasitic website operators re-post these files and you then get the situation where some of the contributors may object to an unprincipled website operator re-posting the file ... and coordinating petitions may become complicated. The point of this ? Yeah ... there is one ... and that is that unless websites can be prevented from taking liberties with the works of others you are going to find fewer developers prepared to contribute to complex Freeware projects because their ability to sustain their rights and Copyrights may be diminished. Commercial works generally have their Copyright tied up somewhat differently - there's not much prospect of ambiguity.What will likely happen in the increasingly specialist area of design and programming for FS ... is that you may well see FEWER complex projects partly because of the actions of these website operators. Is this a reach ? No, it's not in the least and this issue has been discussed for a while amongst developers but it just hasn't been raised in public - until now. But to finish on a positive note : our Freeware T38 will be released in a few days to selected libraries but that certainly won't include AirIndigo.net Best,

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Only had time to throw a quick glance on that site....first time I heared of them, to be honest. Steve, guys, would you say they are on the same level as FSPlanet?If so, then they deserve the same treatment.Francois :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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Hi Francios,Well, I dunno ... 'cos I tended to tolerate FSPlanet. But something just does not sit right with these guys. I still prefer to think favourably of all folks and I'd rather they just did the right thing and removed the files thay have no right to be posting. That's all I asked. If Miller removes the files immediately and apologises for not doing so on first demand a week ago I'll drop this issue. I have no time for this nonsense. They are parasites, they are not contributors to the hobby, they bring nothing of value to the hobby and ultimately they are just irrelevant.BTW : noticed who advertises there ... ?

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'Indigo Cactus'!!?? :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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Hi Francois,What I was referring to was the banner link to another FS web-based subscription service ... ?Best,

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