Just to make things a little more in the way of "as real as it gets" have a question for any real world pilots out there.just wondering when still in the climb phase or during decent- especially on short leg flights - what kind of deck angles would be considered acceptable for cabin crew to carry out "service" - and then say for manouvering also - how far would turns be pushed in terms of bank angle while cabin crew are serving passengers - wondering how safety of using service trolleys relates to flight considerations, turbulence etc.if anyone could give some real world advice about at what point pilots consider delaying or even stopping service altogether because of climb rates or weather, would be really appreciated.Patrick Roe

"just wondering when still in the climb phase or during decent- especially on short leg flights - what kind of deck angles would be considered acceptable for cabin crew to carry out "service" - and then say for manouvering also - how far would turns be pushed in terms of bank angle while cabin crew are serving passengers -" Well not a pilot but pilots don't serve drinks either so I at least can comment,1] They do not *Serve* in climbs or descents do they? If they do serve at all in a climb (and I am not sure they do) it would most certainly be above 10000' when the angle lowers as the aircraft speeds up to target climb or when the seatbelt sign is turned off whenever that may be. Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

in my own experience i havn't seen it done on longer flights but have seen it on a couple of shorter (about 250 nm ) ones. for example Aer Lingus London to dublin - cabin crew went to work not too long after take off!!!! and was well below 10000 ft.even when deck angle was really noticeable and crew straining to push the tolleys. similar experience with short New Zealand Air flight - but captain used the PA to tell passengers that "refreshments" would be delayed due turbulence - and that too was really early in climb.

Sorry, my real name shaheedan from miri,malaysia.As i know , basic turn angle is 10% of speed plus 7.real pilot -please correct me..

Patrick-In my experience there aren't many aircraft that can maintain a consistently high enough deck angle to make serving impossible...As commented by another poster, it can get hard to work against the deck angle- but the carts are very well designed for such things.In flight, high deck angles will normally be experienced only during the very initial climb, then the angle is reduced in order to permit acceleration.I'm not sure what takes place at other airlines, but at our line it is normal protocol for the captain to set some expectations for the flight attendants. I normally instruct them the following:1) Below 10,000MSL we operate in "Sterile Cockpit" and we should only be disturbed in the event of an emergency that involvs a safety of flight issue. (Fire, smoke, etc.)2) The F/A runs that passenger service at her discretion. If/when weather phenomena will create a safety problem for cabin service, I will give as much notice as possible.3) In the event I elect to suspend the cabin service, I'll let the passengers know that it was my decision, and give them an estimate as to when things will resume as normal....4) I provide them with any additional information related to our flight or our crew that will make the F/A's job easier.... There are a few other items in there- but i can't think of them at the moment. The crew briefing is tailored specifically for each crewmember... and varies depending on the flight and it's surroundings.As for bank angles, it really isn't something we give much consideration to. In the terminal area we use 30 degree bank turns or slightly less ATC and flow permitting. Outside the terminal area, i generally use 15 degrees....If flown correctly, the F/A's shouldn't notice the difference between 0, 10, 15, 20 or 30 degrees....When you get beyond 30, they start to notice a difference... but at our airline such bank angles are prohibited. ;-)

Thanks for the input guys

Use shift Z twice and you will see the G load.On a real plane, order a glass of wine and don't drink it. When you are coming near the terminal area and the seat belt lights come on, watch the wine. If you spill a drop, complain. Weather permitting you wont until finals or you pass through cloud.I still have memories of looking directly into some womens back garden, while she was hanging the washing out. I had got distracted reading and hadn't drunk my wine. The plane was about 25 to 30 degrees bank and my wine was sitting still in the glass.Basically as you bank, the gravity lost in the angle is gained from the angular momentum from the turn, and if you have a smooth pilot or autopilot in fair weather G load will remain 1G +/- 0.2GI always have visions of the trim wheel moving at the A/P command when the trolley moves up and down the plane, or a queue forms outside the rear loo. LOL On my way to Ibiza from belast, we had 6 people standing outside the loo and 1 person in it, on a MD-84, and the trolley was coming back down the plane too!Inversely a flight from Belfast City to Birmingham (EGAC-EGBB) with FlyBe and the pilot was trying to make up 15 minutes in a 45 minute flight by using a tail wind and highspeed decent, until ATC said, "Please hold". The pilot had no choice, but to tell us this and... take the power back to flight idle, bring the brakes full out and ... well. I was convinced he had just stopped mid air, it felt like it and looked like it. 300kts to 210kts, starting a right turn and down 1000ft all in about 30 seconds, I had to nurse my glass of wine when it started walking across the table under about 0.5G deceleration.

Once i have seen a movie when a pilot was filling a cup of coffee during a complete roll. Not a single drop was spoiled.(Centrifugal force)Gino