Dear 737 captains,in about half of my approaches in autoland mode the autopilots (one and two) disengage about half a mile before touch down. Why does this happen and does this happen in reality? If so, landings are much more demanding than I thought. But somehow I can

I have exactly the same problem. At first I thought it might be my MCP hardware, but it's not. Happens if I just fly the sim without hardware. In my case, it is happening almost on all autoland approaches no matter how carefilly I set them up. The PFD looks normal when it happens. I have both NAVs tuned to the ILS, both CMDs are on, then all of sudden the AP disengage alarm sounds and the autoland aborts. Curiously the PFD stilll shows VOR and GS lock on. If I try to rearm the AP, the CMD lights will come back on, but not APP on the MCP. For a moment it looks like the VOR/GS capture re-engages, despite the absence of the APP light on the MCP, but then the AP will disengage again. I can't get it to stay back on and have to complete the landing manually. I notice on the FMC and APP/CRS error message.

Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with the AL system on this sim. It is ALWAYS pilot error or unfamiliarity with the AFDS. This is the most realistic AFDS system ever made for a 737 in flight sim, and since that is the case, it is not like anything a sim pilot who does not know how the real NG operates should expect to know how to operate without reading the flight manuals and doing some studing. Even real pilots have to study to learn this stuff.Post a screenshot the MOMENT you see what you are seeing please...Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

>I have exactly the same problem. At first I thought it might>be my MCP hardware, but it's not. Happens if I just fly the>sim without hardware. In my case, it is happening almost on>all autoland approaches no matter how carefilly I set them up.> The PFD looks normal when it happens. I have both NAVs tuned>to the ILS, both CMDs are on, then all of sudden the AP>disengage alarm sounds and the autoland aborts. Curiously the>PFD stilll shows VOR and GS lock on. If I try to rearm the AP,>the CMD lights will come back on, but not APP on the MCP. For>a moment it looks like the VOR/GS capture re-engages, despite>the absence of the APP light on the MCP, but then the AP will>disengage again. I can't get it to stay back on and have to>complete the landing manually. I notice on the FMC and APP/CRS>error message.Yep! That

Hi Randy,I

unfamiliarity is our word for the day guys. "If I try to rearm the AP,>the CMD lights will come back on, but not APP on the MCP. For>a moment it looks like the VOR/GS capture re-engages, despite>the absence of the APP light on the MCP, but then the AP will>disengage again. I can't get it to stay back on and have to>complete the landing manually. I notice on the FMC and APP/CRS>error message." 1] the APP light is suppose to go out. 2] The RW/APP CRS message IS because you have not follwed your checklists which would have you set the final APPROACH COURSE on the MCP course window. I will say it again, RTFM, thye help out a great deal..Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

You are not bothering Ingo, butI would be careful in saying what is a problem and what is pilot error. Unless there is some specific fault on your installation this A/P does not have any issues that I am aware of to date. You keep saying they disengage but you are not providing enough detail for us to know exactly WHY they are or why you THINK they are. What are you doing at this exact point? What makes you believe the A/P is disengaged? What does the pilot's flight display show at this point? Are you touching the controls? Can you post a screenshot?Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Hi, I don

Please don't take it personal, if you are clear about an issue then present it and I would not have to correct and explain and you would not get offended. You agreed with RG with his post which I showed is clearly not understanding the proper operations of the AFDS. To continue here, can you please post a screenshot of the panel at the moment this happens? What is the PFD showing at this point? You said you heard a sound but that still is not clear. What sound? The A/P makes a sound at 400 RA when triming. What are you SEEING, not hearing that makes you say the A/P is disenaged? Cannot help you unless you provide all the details, otherwise we play name that problem.Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Hi Randy,no hard feelings! I just have a simple question that might solve my problem: how far away from the runway do you have to engage the second autopilot? It could be, that I engage it too late. I usually engage it with flaps at 30 and speed at Vref + 15. When I engage the second autopilot, the "flare" function lights up. After another 15 to 20 seconds it at least seems, as if the auotpilot disengages totally. The plane loses height instantly, which leads to touchdown before having reached the runway :-(Next time this happens I

Ok -- fair enough -- let's look at what is in the manual (see section 9-8, Rev 1.4, 23APR04). The procedure is similar to what I used in the DreamFleet B737 in FS2002 with a few nuances. It instructs you that to do a full dual channel approach autoland you need to tune both NAVs to the ILS frequency and set the proper approach course. Did that. Engage CMD B before 800 ft AGL to activate dual channel. (SINGLE CH will come on initially but only is supposed to remain on if you did not select a dual channel set up). Ok -- did that. Expect the APP switch to extinguish at 2/5 dots below glideslope. Ok -- that happens and admittedly is different from what happens on other Boeing MCPs (like the 767/757 where APP does not go out as long as it is active). But then, assuming I leave everything alone -- don't touch the FD switch -- don't change MODES -- don't push the TO/GA button -- just leave the plane alone -- why do I next get a big whooping alarm followed by my AP cutting out?Sorry, Randy, but I can't find an answer in the manual.RG

You can ARM the second on final approach but has to be before 800 RA, the APP button must be selected for the ablity to engage the second A/P. So the FMA on pilot's flight display (PDF) after G/S enages (turns green on PFD) shows SINGLE CH until the second A/P kicks in while passing through 1500 RA, at which time the confidence check is performed and then it should replace SINGLE CH with CMD. If you are in single channel operation with inly one A/P enaged, at least in the RW you must turn off the A/P and land manually by no later than 50'. I'm not sure if PMDG changed the behaviour of the single channel autland. We know that the real bird does in fact have the ability to perform an autoland minus the FLARE in single channel operation but of course no rl pilot would do this. If FLARE is not annunciated by 350 RA the A/Ps will disenage. Flare enages (turns Green) at 50'. Flare should display in white after second A/P kicks in passing 1500 RA. Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

It's because the answer is on your Pilot's Flight Display. It will show you exactly what MODE reversion the aircraft is in and maybe even tell us why. But without more details or a much needed screenie here we will be guessing till the cows come home ;-)Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Ok - as soon as my PIC767 gets to Zurich :<) and I can switch back to the 737 I'll try to get you a screen. RG

Ingo and RG or (RG and Ingo !),By reading your posts I do sense some infamiliarity with the way the autoflight system works. Before you jump I 'll state that that is pretty perfect, OK, no problem at all etc. Otherwise we better shut down the forum."Curiously the LOC/GS work...etc etc"Not curious at all. LOC and GS are properties of the auto flight system (active modes). By contrast the MCP is just an interface (input device) between you (the pilot) and the AFS. Whether your choice (input) will be accepted or not by the system is a diferent story (e.g. if in ALT HLD you press VS and do not change the target altitude the AFS will reject your input...nothing will happen).Same here. The APP light goes out meaning the mode cannot be deselected (i.e. your MCP input will be rejected..) Whether this happens in the real 757 is entirely irrelevant (argh...too long time ago to remember). Furthermore, the **real** autopilot is in fact the flight director (AFDS) which translates your active mode in steering commands (target pitch and bank). What AP ON (CMD) just means is that these steering commands are in fact in turn automatically translated in aileron and elevator deflection(s).Also the SINGLE CH(annel) announciation will remain (regardless of one or two AP's engaged) until 1500' above runway altitude where the system will **first** perform an auto-check (flashing yellow indications in the PFD). It will then arm full autoland mode (CMD/FLARE)Now to the problem : Are you guys sure you do not press the trim button (Num 7 or Num 1) or have any software sending key-button events to this effect ?Randy is right in requesting a picture of the PFD when this happens.Lets clear this for you.Best,Vangelis===================================== E. M. Vaos Precision Manuals Development Group www.precisionmanuals.com=====================================