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VOR/DME approach with FMS

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Guest Superbibi

Hi,I am writing the SID/STAR of Rennes airport (LFRN) and I was wondering if usualy VOR/DME approach (or LLZ for example) are selectable in the FMS or is there only ILS approach.Do pilots fly such approach with the charts only or can they use LNAV to fly most part of it.If that is the case, how a VOR/DME approach appears on the FMS (how for example appears the VOR/DME 28 on the FMS (V/D 28 ?))?In a way I wish there is only ILS because I'll have a lot of work to do :) Best regards Manu

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>Hi,>I am writing the SID/STAR of Rennes airport (LFRN) and I was>wondering if usualy VOR/DME approach (or LLZ for example) are>selectable in the FMS or is there only ILS approach.>Do pilots fly such approach with the charts only or can they>use LNAV to fly most part of it.>If that is the case, how a VOR/DME approach appears on the FMS>(how for example appears the VOR/DME 28 on the FMS (V/D 28>?))?>>In a way I wish there is only ILS because I'll have a lot of>work to do :) >>Best regards >Manu>Manu,Yes, there are VOR and NDB approaches that are selectable in the FMC at some airports.Yes, pilots can fly these approaches and in this airplane and will probably use LNAV for lateral guidance and VNAV or VS for vertical guidance.How does it appear? I think there's only space for 6 characters. I saw one VOR DME approach in the FMC written DME27. I really couldn't tell you how it should look.Just include the approaches that you want. Don't think its a requirement to put every approach at an airport into the FMC.Good luck,Floyd


John Floyd

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Hi Manu,> Do pilots fly such approach with the charts only or can they> use LNAV to fly most part of it.you can fly an non-precision approach such as a VOR approach in LNAV until reaching minimums, provided you have tuned the 'raw data' VORs into your receivers and the raw is monitored to be correct. Alternatively, you can easily fly a non-precision approach without any automatics, manually and 'raw data' only.> If that is the case, how a VOR/DME approach appears on the FMS> (how for example appears the VOR/DME 28 on the FMS (V/D 28?))?Very simple: VOR28. Nothing else. Actually, I seems to depend on the supplier of the Navigation Database, but I have seen only the following:ILSVORNDBRNV (RNAV Approaches)GPS (GPS Approaches)NDBLOCBAC (for Localizer Backcourse Approaches)combined with the runway number, of course. e.g VOR34, ILS25L, NDB06 and so on. These are the main identifiers of approach procedures in the FMC.> Don't think its a requirement to put every approach> at an airport into the FMC.That's correct. E.g. 747-400 FMCs do not have information stored for NDB approaches. Furthermore, approaches which are visual, circling or serving more than a single runway like 'VOR-C', 'Visual Circling 34' or 'NDB-B' are never stored in a FMC navigation database. (However, SID departures may serve more than one runway, of course.)Hope this helps, Markus


Best regards,

  

  Markus Vitzethum ("ps1flyer")

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Guest Superbibi

Thank you very much for the information.In a way that saves me a lot of time :)Here is a link where you can find all the official charts in France:http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htmI have 2 last question regharding this chart (LFRN): http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip...AD%202.LFRN.pdf -On page 8, there is the VOR/DME ILS RNY 28 approach used when you're coming from the west of the airfield. How would you call it on the FMS (VILS28?)? I already used LILS 28 regarding the approach page 9 (I remember seeing such name in the FMS of PS1.3).Sorry to ask these questions but it is to make it more realistic. -One last question regarding the missed approach page 9.I wrote " APPROACH LILS28 FIX RS 2000 RNW 28 KEEP TRK UNTIL 1000 TURN LEFT DIRECT FIX RS HOLD AT FIX RS INBOUNDCOURSE 284" but that creates a discontinuity between RS and the hold. If anyone could help.Thanks for the help.Manu

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Hi Manu,if you want it to be as realistic as possible, you might want to follow my advice. ;-)Let me start by making one remark. Quite often, there is major difference between a printed chart and electronic NavData (e.g. in the FMC). Usually you need both and in particular, you must not use electronic data without having the printed chart. The main point is that names and even the details of a procedure may be different in the electronic NavData, that is e.g. a terminal approach procedure. So...> -On page 8, there is the VOR/DME ILS RNY 28 approach> used when you're coming from the west of the airfield.> How would you call it on the FMS (VILS28?)? I already> used LILS 28 regarding the approach page 9 (I remember> seeing such name in the FMS of PS1.3).In both cases, you will NOT see VILS28 or LILS28. What counts is ONLY the main approach navigation aid, and that is in both cases the ILS for runway 28. So BOTH procedures will be named ILS28. This is perfectly OK because - if you look at the charts (I have looked at the current Jeppesen charts) - the final approaches and even the missed approaches are identical. In fact, there is only a SINGLE procedure names ILS28 but there all the approach transitions you will. ILS28 contains approach transitions for the VOR/DME ILS28 *and* Lctr ILS28.Now, things are getting difficult. There two different approach transitions from e.g. BETOG to the final approach of ILS28. From my experience, it would say that only ONE approach transition will be programmed into the FMC NavDatabase. Which one is hard to tell but I suspect that the approach transition via the DME arc will usually be programmed. To conclude, my best estimate that the approach section on the ARRIVAL page will look like this: (neglecting any STARs) LFRN ARRIVALS 1/2 RTE 1XXX ILS28 VOR10 VOR28 runways 10 28 ------------------------And upon selecting ILS28 it might look like this: LFRN ARRIVALS 1/2 RTE 1XXX ILS28 trans AKETI BETOG IFFEN RISUD ------------------------Hope this helps, Markusp.s.If you do own PS1.3, you might want to contact me by a private message for some more in-depth discussions...


Best regards,

  

  Markus Vitzethum ("ps1flyer")

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Guest Superbibi

Hi,that's funny that this procedure is available now (it has been posted 5 days ago).All my work for nothing :).I havn't tried it neither but I'll check (maybe mine is better :) ).By the way, in reply to PS1Flyer (thanks for the information), I understand that when you select the type of approach in the fms, the procedure begins at the final approach point and ends whit the missed approach.Thanks for all for the informations.Best regardsManu

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