To all you real life pilots...

[Guest boxjockey99]

AntHere's my story, see how it fits with your situation but bear in mind that things are slightly different in the UK / Europe and also I had a good deal of luck on my journey!I always wanted to fly just like you but always thought it a pipedream then as I got older I started to look into it properly. I opted to do what your first reply says and get a degree in a completely unrelated subject as a backup for all manner of unpleasant things that can happen in the airline industry. At 19 I was awared a flying scholarship from the Royal Air Force. This is like a sweetner to join the forces but not something that ties you in. The scholarship got me 20hrs of high intensity flight training (solo in 0 - 9hrs and the like). I took out a student loan to pay for the remaining 20hrs required for the UK PPL and I was off and flying. My degree was a 4 year affair and at the end of this I took out a sizable loan to go and do my Commercial licenses and hour building but before shelling out all the cash I made sure I was fit to get a Class 1 medical which while expensive at the inital issue does prevent you from spending lots of cash to then find you can't get a medical! My loan paid for me to go hour building out in FLorida (much cheaper than the UK) and paid for my first disastrous attempt at the Written Exams! Suffice to say I failed all of the 7 I took and was back to the drawing board! As luck would have it in the december of 1999 I saw a small add in 'Pilot' magazine (similar to Flyer) asking for applicant for a partial sponsorship scheme. Needless to say I applied and promptly heard nothing for 3 months. I had actually forgotten about the application until one day a letter calling me to interview popped through the letterbox. I did the interview which I passed along with all the 'are you an axe murderer' psycho babble tests and was asked to go to the sim (a simple Frasca IFR trainer). I passed that and went on the the final interview where I ended up getting the job. The job being a chunk of cash to pay for my ATPL studies (in Europe you can get a frozen ATPL which remains a CPL/IR till you hit 1500hrs then it unfreezes and you get the full ATPL). THe bonus was that there was a job at the end of the course! The bank loaned me the balance with my dad putting his house up as collateral on the loan (thanks dad!). It took me about 15 months to sit the 14 written exams and 2 flight tests to get my CPL/IR issued and at last a flying job was in sight. Unfortunately Al Quieda had other ideas and they took their horrid actions on Sept 11th and that was the end of that. All the airline jobs dried up and my promised course and job vanished although to be fair the company employed me in their Operations Dept for the next 14 months. THere were several courses for the aircraft I was due to join but I was at the bottom of the pile it would seem and I was passed over in favour of more experienced people!Finally in March 2002 I was told I had a course date at the end of April however the gods were still not smiling on me. That very night I had a motorcycle accident which left me laid up with a badly broken leg for 3 months... Back to Ops I went! Fortune did smile upon me though and in Oct 2002 I was aksed to take the course for the F27 job I had waited so long for. With a thundering 270hrs total time I got into the right seat of a turboprop frieghter (formerly a 50 seat passenger aircraft) and I was to spend the forseeable few years flying around in the right seat of an aircraft that was built before man set foot on the moon (gives an idea of the vintage of our old Fokker F27's)! I did a whole 400hrs on the F27 when I was called in to see the boss and asked if I would consider moving to our new fleet and new base in Leeds. So with now a whopping 650hrs I went to do battle with the Boeing 737-300 sim. I passed and in Jan 2004 I sat the course and ended up where I am now sitting in the right seat of a shiny 737-300.There are a lot of differences between the European System and the USA particualrly the desire from the airlines in the USA to have experienced people in both seats. I know when I was hour building in FL many of the instructors were having to rack up 1500hrs before even the small regional airlines would give them an interview never mind a job. I was lucky to get a turboprop job at such a low total time and a jet job in similar short order. Here I am now just peaked 1500hrs with 800+hrs on the 737-300. With flying in my experience there are 2 deciding factors which earn you that most coveted seat in the pointy end... Determination and Cash flow. IF you have both you'll get in no problem, if you only have determination then I assure you will find the cash flow in time!Hope that helpsKris

[Guest takki113]

>With flying in my experience there are 2 deciding factors which earn you that most coveted seat in the pointy end... Determination and Cash flow. IF you have both you'll get in no problem, if you only have determination then I assure you will find the cash flow in time! Kris,Thank you so much ofr your story, I can relate to yours, and that last sentence has inspired me to stay focused and realy pursue this, its been my life since i was a young boy and its still my life, I have enough determination and drive to go for it, no matter if rejection comes a few times. But can you tell me one thing, when you went to get your FAA medical examination how much was it, and like what things do they check on, at a young age. Like respetory etc. and what are the only things that can make a young man fail that medical examination.

[Guest Marli]

Hi everyone, I am a 16 year old student in the UK and have currently just finished my GCSEs and will be doing my A-levels over the next 2 years in Maths, Physics and Electronics. I have a passion for airliners and am setting my sights on being an engineer possibly with British Airways. I believe British Airways have a sponsorship scheme called the Professional Engineer Programme. Is there by any chance anyone out there who know of this course of have taken it? It is a 4 year course were you get a competitive salary from the first year, at the end of the course you come out with a JAR 66 Licence, an HND in Aeronautical Engineering and there is an option to study for a BEng (Hons) in Air Transport Engineering which will add another 2 years to the course if chosen. This is an alternative to university but it seems to me that this is a better option because with uni, after 3 years you come out with just a degree but with the BA course after 6 years you can come out with a licence, degree, HND and a lot more hands-on experience you wouldnt get at uni since the BA course is based at Heathrow Airport. Also with the BA course you are sponsored by BA so there are no tuition fees plus you get a salary. I think this is the better option than uni. Tim, as an engineer yourself, what do you think of this option. Would this kind of course give me a good salary in the long term? I love flying the PMDG and just the prospect of flying and sometimes I wonder whether I would prefer being a pilot for a major airline (preferably B737 series), but considering what all of you have said and also the burden of being responsible for so many people, I think the engineering is the better option. I think just practicing and perfecting flying the PMDG will give me a lot of knowledge. Is it possible to straight away train to be an airline pilot in a professional airline simulator without any previous pilot licence, or do you have to have a small plane (cessna) pilot licence before? I'm sure by practicing on the PMDG 737NG would give you a bit of an advantage once coming to learn the real thing. Also would it be realistic to become an engineer then a few years later either take some time out, or in spare time, get a B737 pilots licence? Has anyone flown in an airline's professional simulator in the UK possibly at Heathrow or Gatwick, and how much does it cost? How old do you have to be to fly one of those? How realitic is the PMDG compared to it?Thanks for everyones good advice.Luke

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

im in the same boat. Start your training now. Work in your physics and math. After HS, look for aviation schools. Embry-Riddle i am really looking at. Its a 4 year college, and you get all your training and ratings in, and a college degree next to that which will also look good to an airline since it shows potentional. Get your PPL done before you go to school, but anything after that will be covered again in school.

[Guest boxjockey99]

AntGood, focus and determination are the big things if you want to get into aviation! I have a European license which is a little different to the US system. As a result don't take this as gospel as the European medical (at the initial stage is a good deal more stringent than the FAA one so I understand). Basically the Class 1 intial medical is every possible test short of MRI scans! YOu get the once over from a doctor plus a full eye and ear exam, blood test, ECG (Heart trace) and believe it or not an EEG (ELectrodes stuck to your head to see if your brain waves show tendancies for epilepsy etc) Limits for the intial are fair but more stringent than those at renewals eg your eyes may have a limit of +/-3 Diopteres at the initial but this limit increases with age so you are unlikely to loose your medical later in life due to things like eyesight unless you have a major problem. Respiratory issues such as Asthma is not really an issue as long as you meet the Peak Flow (blow into the tube thingy) requirements.The cost in the UK was

[Guest flyQXcrj]

Hi Ant-I tell everyone who asks - IT'S WORTH IT! If you want to be rich, go to law school or medical school. If you want to be happy, make aviation your career.As you have already read, GET A FOUR YEAR DEGREE! I have a teaching degree which has allowed me to move into the training department at my airline and now I have the best of both worlds!I couldn't imagine working in any other industry. Every day at the airline is a new challenge. Every day I learn something new. Every day I get to do something incredible.You can tell I love my job!Fly Safe,

[Guest takki113]

Kris,What is your e-mail address, I will def. keep in contact with ya' thanks for all the help.

[Guest tmetzinger]

The BA programme sounds like a very good deal - it's obvious that they plan to make a big investment in you, and are hedging their (and your) bets - if you turn out to not be able to fly later in your career, you've got the engineering background to still be valuable to the company. I expect a programme like that would be highly competitive, so investigate!.Europe is much more comfortable with the idea of taking someone with no flight experience and putting them in an integrated training program with lots of sim time in transport style aircraft, and they turn out excellent pilots. They should, military has been training this way for decades. The USA is much more traditional, so you'd spend more time in little airplanes learning to fly.Best wishes,

[Guest wesl]

Remember, flying isn't a job, it is a passion. Some pilots are lucky enough to get paid to do it for a living. My dad retired from the (un)friendly skies as a triple 7 check airman 8 yrs ago. My younger brother just went to work for JetBlue after flying DC9 for another airline. I think he took a 50K pay cut, but the job prospects for survival appeared much better. Having worked for JetBlue for less than a year, he will upgrade to captain this fall.Both men are smart, but neither has a college degree though they have some college. No military background either. Dad had 400 (four hundred)hours when hired in the 1960's, my bro has 5000+ hrs, 3000 as a jet captain when hired by the blue. In some ways they were lucky, but mostly persistent. I may have a steady paycheck, but they get all the fun.Good luck on the endeavor.Wes

[Guest Marli]

Tim, I gather that your an engineer, what kind of engineering do you do and what is it like? You said you have a 6 figure salary. Here in the UK that kind of salary is only for the likes of investment brokers, etc, but even something like

[Guest]

And never forget that "guaranteed interview" doesn't equate to "guaranteed job"!Many such academies advertise with "contacts in the airline industry" claiming that a very high percentage got instant interviews when graduating.It's easy, an interview costs the airline nothing (especially if the academy pays them for the interviews to make itself look good).Get everyone come in for an interview, then pick the one or two best ones to hire (if anyone).

[Guest]

European regs are a lot stricter than are US regs, and not just in the medical field.In Europe you can't own your employer money in cases like this (unless maybe the company can prove that you did it on purpose).They can (and may well be forced to) offer you another job that doesn't require that medical. That's labour law. Maybe if you don't accept that job and your contract states you're responsible for paying back part of training cost in case you quit before X years have past, they can of course claim (and probably will).But all you need to prevent that is have them fire you (all too easy these days) instead.

[Guest Jeff_DCA]

DCA do place a lot of graduates though. Check this out: http://www.deltaconnectionacademy.com/html...acements05.htmlCheers,Jeff

[Guest tmetzinger]

I do computer systems engineering. As a consultant, I help my clients build complete infrastructures, so I have to know networking, storage, databases, app software, servers, backup, security, disaster recovery and business continuance, and more.I've got almost 20 years of experience, both in the federal government and the private sector. Most of my "value" that justifies my salary (approx $125K US plus bonuses and benefits) is that I have a broad base of skills, so I can design a system that works and coordinate and communicate with the individual specialists (system admins, database admins, storage admins, security auditors, etc), and that I'm very familiar with operating in the government, which has it's own warped reality. I also hold high-level security clearances.Entry level pay in my industry is in the $40-50K range and varies depending on if you're a hardware (and what kind) or software (and what kind) of person.There are some VERY big dollars to be made in the financial sector for computer security types, thanks to the new corporate accountability laws in the USA. But it's an extremely high-stress environment and the culture is very rigid.In the US, people who do the work (turn the wrenches, paint the metal) don't make much money. People who can plan the work (design the wing snd specify the torgue tho turn the wrench, design the process for painting the metal) make more, and the people who own and run the company make the most (they also take most of the risk establishing the company).What it sounds like you'd want is an engineering job on a Boeing build team - taking the designer's work and figuring out how to actually construct it. Good money in that, and some hands-on time. There's a really good documentary on the 777 called 21st Century Jet, and you can see the various labor categories in it. The guy in charge of the program (who had to juggle pricing, manage customers, as well as manage the actual design and building of the airplane) makes a large salary with BIG performance incentives. The engineers who do do the design and manufacturing process work make good salaries, and also get incentives. The lady who applies the sealant to the wing makes her union-negotiated hourly wage. They all share in the pride of building the airplane.Best wishes,

[Guest glenb]

Tim,You have the best posts. I have learned a lot.Thanks