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Guest dvaladze

737 NG 800 landing

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Guest dvaladze

Hello,I am performing ILS landing without any problems except I am getting aural "too low - terrain" warning messages. FMC knows about destination airport and runway I am landing. I am using flight plan including SID and STAR.Could someone please explain what am I doing wrong? or is it standard warning that pilot always gets when landing? Environment: FS9.1Aircraft: PMDG 737 NG 800Thanks in advance,Levan.

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This GPWS aural warning means you have unsafe terrain clearance of less than 1000 feet at high speed with either the landing gear or flaps not down. PULL UP!Floyd


John Floyd

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Guest dvaladze

Thanks Floyd. It explains lot.I did steep descent that increased my speed. My FMC calculated landing speed was 130 knots but my actual air speed was around 210.Thanks again,Levan.

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Any drag required message on the FMC?


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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Guest dvaladze

Hello Ron,I am not sure what you mean. I just started with FS and PMDG and have little experience with FMC. On the scratch pad I did not have any message displyed except steep descent requirement message that I got before.BTW, I am using tutorial that I have found on net. flight plan is:KDEN-ROCKI3.DVC-TBC-J64-CIVET-CIVET4-KLAXI am going to try landing again this afternoon.Thanks again,Levan.

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Drag Required means with the max flaps for the desired airspeed and minimum power applied, drag devices (you said gear was down - that is one) you might have to apply speedbrakes if nothing else is left. Once you are below a certain AGL (think it is 1,000) you are not supposed to use speedbraking (spoilers). At this point they should be armed as ground spoilers (extend on idle thrust and suface contact). Drag Required means the autopilot has used pitch and autothrottle as much as it can and needs the pilot to extend flaps, gear, of it high enough AGL speedbrakes to add drag to meet the programmed airspeed profile.I have used spoilers in approach to assist a steep descent so I am below the GS before hitting the FAF where the GS is captured. At that point everything is hanging out and the speedbrake handle is retracted to the armed position.I am pretty sure this is modeled in the FMC scratchpad (or am I confused and it is announciated in the PFD).I'll have to go back to the manual to check.BTW, a real airline pilot who has tested the 737NG models has suggested when the approach flap speeds fill in the FMC that 10 knots be added to your final flap speed, the total entered in the scratchpad, and then LSK'd back into it. 130 sounds a little low for most conditions.I looked at the CIVET4 approach and R25L ILS plate. At FEIUR which is about 26 DME out from the localizer, the crossing restriction is 8,000 feet or above. The FAF GS interecept at LIMMA DME 7.4 is 1900 MSL. The GS is a standard 3 degrees. I do not see a steep descent required at all. At CIVET it calls for at or above 17,000 or below 14,000 which is at 52 DME from the localizer. Plenty of room is there. Perhaps ATC has a problem in giving you the correct vectors. The 25 nm MSA north of 240 degrees centered on VOR LAX is 7700 and 2700 south.I guess it is best to say im my opinion that ATC if not vectoring you to CIVET is getting you on the localizer closer that something is not quite correct.Hope this helps.I do not use FS ATC but Radar Contact but I believe both allow you to chose an IAP.If you wish to acquire these plates on-line from the FAA go here:http://www.naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp.asp?ve...&end=11-24-2005Don't use the K in the airport identifier unless you check ICAO code. These are .pdf files that you can save and print with Acrobat Reader (free) which you probably have to read the PMDG manuals.Also make sure you do not fill in the APPROACH page until somewhat near destination to account for fuel burnoff and you are using your landing gross weight.


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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Guest dvaladze

Ron,Thanks very much. It is very educational. While I was descending, FMC displyed the following message on the scratchpad:"Steep descent required after BREMR"At the beginning I have ignored this message (I did not understand meaning of it) and started descending later from 9000 MSL when KLAX DME was 25. I still managed to land but it was scary.So, I hope next time I will do better.Thanks,Levan.

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Guest dvaladze

I just downloaded and looked at CIVET FOUR STAR from FAA website.Message on FMC must have said "Steep descent required after FUELR". I was mistaken when I sed BREMR.Thanks for pointing me to FAA website.Levan.

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BREMR is just west of CIVET crodssing at 12,000 min. This is a max descent over 13 nm from CIVET. FUELR crosses at 8,000 minimum or 4,000 descent over another 13 nm. FUELR is the IAF for ILS 25L (Sidestep 25R). The next crossing on the IAP is GAATE at 5,000 for a 3,000 descent over 9.2. Then roughly you have a 1,500 descent over 5 nm, 1,600 or 300 over another 5 nm. There could be a steeper but not steep descent depending on your assigned altitude at LIMMA if ATC requires 3,200 there or 1,900 for a normal slope from LIMMA, 7 DME out from the threshold at 101 MSL but it should not generate a warning in my opinion. I do not see anything much over three degreesAnyway you have got the STAR and source to the IAPs. Are you going a round-about way?


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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Guest dvaladze

Hello Ron,This time I got "Drag required" message on FMC scratchpad. I have used spoilers and was able to land successfully. (Without any "Too Low" aural warnings). To end up bellow the GS, I had to manually set MCP V/S speed after FUELR.Thanks very much,Levan.

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