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Guest robdebakker

frame rates

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I am an intensive FS9 user. I recently bought the 747-400 and I am experienced with LevelD 767 and PSS 777. Results on flying with the 747 are very disappointing, compared with the fr's of the other products.I am using multiple monitors, with overhead, throttle, radio and FMC undocked on two addiotinal monitors. Fr's are <6.0 which is unflyable.System is P4 3.6 with 2Gb memeory and Geforce 7800 Pro.Any suggestions? Why are the panels using so much performance? Thje other products are comparable and performing much better.Appreciate a PMDG reaction.Rob

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With that kind of system you have some serious issues going on.I have a much lesser computer, and I can run 1280x960 at 25+ FPS in this bird, with TrackIR in the Virtual Cockpit + Active Sky overcast going.Tweak your machine and ensure you have nothing running that you don't need to have on while you fly. Maybe you have spyware, adware, or just have other processes running that don't need to be.Also ensure you have the latest motherboard / video card / sound card drivers.

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Multiple monitors is too much for one video card.The PMDG 747 has more functions going on than the other two.I have the LDS767 and the PMDG 747 and they both run ok on my system.AMD2400+, KT333 Motherboard, Radeon 9800Pro 128mb and 1024 DDR ram. Single, Samsung 171s LCD monitor, TrackIR4ProDave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

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I have about the same problem as Rob describes :I have an AMD 3800+ with 1 GB RAM and two graphical PCI-E cards, a 6800GT and a Matrox Parhelia APVe with a total of 5 monitors for panels onlyI have limited the fps to 20 but as soon as I start undocking panels and enlarge them on the extra monitors, my framerate start dropping and after undocking the main panel, overhead, CDU, throttle and radio stack I am also down to 6 fps.I have already followed all PMDG advices as given in the manual to ease on the load, for example my instrument fps is down to 10 etc.As I have a Wideview setup with the outside views on other PC's I have also set all scenery sliders on this panels PC to the left.I do not have this problem with the PMDG 737NG nor with the F1 ATR72-500.So also I would welcome any help or advice to solve this problemSee you, Jan

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For the Hyper-Threaded / P4 guys, might try going into task manager > processes > and rt clk FS9.exe > set affinity, then de-select one CPU. Leave only one CPU engaged to FS9.exe. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but worth a try if you need a little booster. With these new, big Vcard (and even bigger add-ons), my impression is that MSFS is now getting CPU limited. My HT/P4/3.2 was wasn't even letting a little ol' 6600GT fully fly. Got a goodley boost with the CPU trick. (Not to address the PMDG vs 'other' question though. Just something to try in the mean time.)

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How much are your fps while flying the LVD?I do not think or agree that LVD is lighter on the machine than the PMDG 744 is.So please tell us what you are getting with the LVD and also what other settings are set to.It is an issue with many who complain about FS9 performance, that they do not focus on the rest of the setup of FS9.Yes add on panels and VCs will demand more of your pc, around 15fps if you are really unlucky.But many things can be done to make the whole deal much more slick running.If you are using Active sky you can choose to have clouds made in DXT format rather than BIT32, this WILL increase performance, especially on a good card like yours.AI needs to be there I agree, but please be prepared to live with low fps in places like FRA, LHR og ORD/ATL.Also do not use MYTRAFFIC if you want to fly in and out of heavy congested areas, my FRA suffors simply because I have 5 MYTRAFFIC C5s parked there, along with other traffic of course.Auto Gen is a major fps stealer as well. Try getting autogen textures in a lower resolution or even in DXT would be even better.Range of clouds and visibiliy... Set to a medium setting at least, in real life you rarely have more than 60miles of vis anyhoo.Scenery shadows is a small cause, but disabiling both aircraft and scenery shadows will boost a bit, but is not recommended for a high end system like yours.There are many ways and much more you can strip down, but I think that will have an effect on the over all experience.I think clouds, water, mesh and the likes are necessary for the over all FS9 experience...Boaz...

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no really there is a big difference between other payware aircraft.I use two monitors on top. 21"/ 19"1. 2d panel2. overheadworks great with pmdg 737 all versions, lds 767, and feelthere 737.i have in 2d almost the same fps with every panel/aircraft, also with the pmdg 747, but when i use overhead panel on monitor 2 then my fps go down with 10 fps.conclusion 2 monitors on pmdg 737, lds 767 feelthere 737 are great and works fine.2 monitors on 747 pmdg is fps -10 (on my system).pent 4 3.2 1024nbati 9800 pro 256mbregards rick

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All you guys would have much better frame rates if you did what Jeff Greth and I have done?Buy 'TrackIR 3' with vector expansion or '4 Pro'.Then you could put all those monitors cluttering up your space and sending the electric bill soaring in the dustbin and enjoy the reality immersion experience that 'TrackIR' delivers.Think of it, just one monitor to supply information for? Your CPU and video card would FLY (If you pardon the pun?).Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

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i don't want to fly with track ir, so i think the only options is to switch of the overhead when i need the fps.:-( by the way rob, thats looking good, the only difference with a real panel is the electrical wiring.rick

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No I'm not a salesman for TrackIR, just someone that is using it.I believe in 'credit where credit is due' and TrackIR is more immersive, as you can fly any aircraft with a VC with more view potential than you have in that expensive looking set-up. Nice as it is.If you doubt my words, just look up Jeff's video's using it here http://chicago054.server4free.de/jeff/v_movies.htmAfter all, we are discussing frame rates and what causes slow fps, aren't we?This is also the answer to those who CAN'T afford to build cockpits as good as yours.Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

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I propose to stop discussing about aspects not related or not solving the low fps problems as decribed by Rob, Rick and myself and invite the real PMDG experts to come in and explain why and help us outSee you, JanPS Maybe the attached photo makes clear why I want the problem solved

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>I have about the same problem as Rob describes :>>I do not have this problem with the PMDG 737NG nor with the F1>ATR72-500.>>So also I would welcome any help or advice to solve this>problem>>See you, JanIf you don't have this problem with either of those two, there can't be much wrong then? The 'NG's are very fps hungry in 'vc' view.BTW Jan, your set-up is the best I have seen, well done mate.Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

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Beautiful setup there Jan, It's hard for those of us who do not have such a setup to help you out without guesswork. I use one 19" screen and my specs certainly are on the high end, I get great fps. I think that to be able to drive that many panels might require a very powerful machine. I would suggest writing PMDG directly for any advice on your type of setup.[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|

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could someone from Pmdg reply on this subject?? regards,rick.looking forward for the freighter.

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This is a next attempt to get the attention of PMDG experts to get help to solve the problem of very low framerates after undocking of panels to extra monitors in a multiple monitoir setupWhy do you keep so silent, is there a real problem ???Thanks in advance for any helpSee you, Jan

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Jan,With all due respect to you, I simply can't understand why you expect a valued software supplier to answer display problems?When I bought FS9, I didn't see anything on the box regarding how many monitors FS9 was intended for, nor do PMDG have any liability for guaranteeing their software will run on systems other than single monitors.They 'do' specify what the minimum system requirements are for running a particular program and if it doesn't work, they will do their damness to make it work and have been successful with their 'Queen'.I am no computer expert, I haven't even had the pleasure of going through an 'IT' course but, I do know that the more hardware you burden your P.C. with the slower it's going to perform. That's not rocket science is it?I hope that someone on PMDG does have the answer your looking for but, the tone that you are now using is hardly the way to attract an reasonable answer.If you want to run multiple monitors, you should accept the limitations.Best of luck?Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

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Not sure if this will help. I posted a message about low frame rates and got a reply that made sense. He said that if you use the "shift 1" "shift 2" etc to call up different views instead of the view switch panel, it will overlay the screen and the previous view will still be "underneath." In other words, it is possible that you have windows underneath (not visible) that are eating up processor time and killing your frame rates depending on how you configure your views. Not sure this will help but thought it might be worth mentioning.

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Hi DaveThanks for your replyHowever I think that things are a bit more complicated.Using multiple monitors with FS is maybe not the standard, but it is so wdespread that you cannot 'ignore' itAlso PMDG had these multiple monitor users in mind while developing the 'Queen', otherwise they should not have added an option for the panelswitcher "To allow undockable overhead panel (MULTI-MONOTOR users ONLY)" . If you then see the resulting 10 fps as Rick describes in his message in this thread, with a PC of almost twice the systen requirements and only the overhead panel undocked to a second monitor, then I thnk that generates questions that 'cry' for an answer.And for my setup, given the result with other planes, I expect, also with the Queen, to get some 'two-figure' fpsSee you, Janhttp://home.wxs.nl/~jarkest/home.html

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Still strugglig with the low framerates after undocking some panels to other monitors.In that respect can anybody give advice on the following:I do not use/need the exterior views with its hundreds of moving parts.Therefore the question is it possible to load the PMDG 744 (panels, sound, model.cfg etc) without the files ralated to the exterior views and if so will it improve the framerates ?Thanks in advance for any replySee you, Jan

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Did some further investigation in my struggle with the low framerates after undocking and enlarging panels to extra monitors and found something I want to share and hopefully get some answers to the questions that came up.After starting FS I load the PMDG744 and start loading and undocking a number of panels. As I have a very small main FS window of only about 320x80 pixels, also the undocked panels are at the beginning rather small. In this situation with a main FS window and 7 undocked very small panels I still have a framerate of 19.9 (limit set to 20).Can I conlude from this the the load from the gauges itself is not the problem?The 'trouble' starts when I go enlarging these panels. It looks like there is a direct relation between the total screen area these panels use and the framerate drop. If I enlarge one panel to a full screen area of 1280x1024 the fps goes to about 16, After filling up 3 monitors (almost independent of the panels I use for that) it is down to 10-12 fps and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, if I fill-up all my 5 panel monitors I get only 6 fpsI tried the same this morning with the PMDG 737NG, F1 ATR72 and PSS A320 and none of these show this drop of framerate while enlarging panels to fill my monitors, they all keep the framerate very near (0.1 or 0.2) to the set limit of 20 fpsCan anybody explain why the panel dimension have such a large influence on the load with the PMDG744, while it does not matter much with most other planes? And of course I would be much happier if anybody had a solution, not only for me but for all other multiple monitor users having the same kind of problem.That brings also up my last questeion, are there multiple monitor users that NOT encounter this kind of problem with the PMDG744. If so please come in and tell us how you managed.See you, JanSystem spec A8N-SLI, AMD3500+, 1 GB RAM, 2PCI-Express video cards XFX Nvidia 6800GT and Matros Parhelia APVeFor more details see http://home.wxs.nl/~jarkest/home.html

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>>I tried the same this morning with the PMDG 737NG, F1 ATR72>and PSS A320 and none of these show this drop of framerate>while enlarging panels to fill my monitors, they all keep the>framerate very near (0.1 or 0.2) to the set limit of 20 fpsFor what it's worth Janar, I get higher fps with the 744 (with single monitor) then the 'NG's.Sorry I can't help you with your other problems but I will ask a chap in our group that flies with 8 monitors if he has any advice for you.Hang in there mate?Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

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>Can anybody explain why the panel dimension have such a large>influence on the load with the PMDG744, while it does not>matter much with most other planes?Just passing by, i do not own the 744 but your question intrigued me and your findings did the final touch.I think, from my experience in computers, that when you see performance vary with the dimension of the rendering area it has something to do with the graphic power required.Example: a simple bitmap draw command would be completed in almost the same time both in 320x200 and in 1600x1200.Given that graphic processing speed of modern video cards is high enough not to let you notice this difference (that is there anyway).But when you put in some intensive calculations (like filtering) the bigger the area the more intensive the calculations.And when a pixel needs some 16 cycles to be drawn (worst case scenario) rendering 3145728 pixels (2048x1536) can require a noticeable time.I repeat that all of this comes only from my general knowledge and your experience.But as i remember there were options, in the PMDG control panel, to smooth out graphics in the 744 (like for example the compass rose truly circular).All of these may be directdraw commands requiring big calcs.And the bigger you drawing area the more resources it needs.These new techniques have been adopted only recently, and not by every developer.The 737ng and the atr72 surely do not use them.>And of course I would be>much happier if anybody had a solution, not only for me but>for all other multiple monitor users having the same kind of>problem.You may try disabling the graphic options available in the PMDG control panel, but this is a wild guess.If the problem really resides in the complexity of the drawing algorithms there is not much you can do.Have you tried using only the 6800 for the panels and leaving out the parhelia?Maybe it's that one that can't cope...Only wild guesses i'm afraid.

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The 747-400F is released. It also contains an update for the earlier 747-400. Will this update increase the framerates?Thanks for an answer from PMDG support.Rob

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