Autoland Climb on 737

[Guest Ray51]

After the aircraft starts decending on the G/S in an coupled approach you should set the MCP ALT to the missed approach altitude if I remember correctly.Ray

[ronzie 21]

I-LAX is the correct identifier on 109.9. The wrong ID on the same frequency opposite end would be I-MKZ as discussed previously.One problem might be at GAATE - where did you see the GS indicator. Was it above you? You must kick in APP before the GS indicator centers. At GAATE DME 17.2 I-LAX shown just below the ID below the left FMA, it should be just above you. If you are not within localizer interception you still would have heading control but descent would follow the G/S. Check the roll mode in the center of the FMA and the pitch mode for G/S lock on the right FMA section.I do not have the STAR easily available for JAVSI location (on my computer charts) and it does not show on my IAP plate. Hopefully that horizontal merge angle is 45 degrees or less.Another problem is if you reset ALT before you were in G/S mode as indicated on the FMA right section (pitch mode) your altitude could change if you were still on VNAV or in a FLCG descent that had not completed. In this case do not reset the ALT below 5000. Let a locked G/S do the descent and let G/S come to you from above as you are in level flight at proper speed and flaps configuration. If you are too high (above the G/S) but it is just below the aircraft it might initially dive to catch it but would probably lose it because IAS would suddenly increase and the aircraft might start to climb momentarily making things worse. Once you are stable on the G/S lock you can set the ALT for the correct value for a missed approach should you engage TOGA. Just turn ALT, don't push.

[Guest rontheancient]

JAVSI is the last intersection for the SADDE6 arrival just before vectors to approach, it is a 360 turn but I usually enter GAATE at runway heading with the published altitude of 5000. Im confused on how to approach the GS. Do I activate APP with the GS above or below me? If I enter at GAATE, I am above the GS. So I properly lock on to the GS with G/S displayed in the FMA in green, then I reset the ALT to the missed approach altitude (which is 800 for 25L at KLAX). Right?Im doing the test flight but I will save to a point just before I make the turn to GAATE, so I dont have to fly an hour to test.EDIT: I just finished the test flight, a little better this time, but shortly after I went to flaps 25, ILAX DME 8.1; CMD B went out in the MCP, G/S disappeared from the FMA and CWS P showed up in yellow just below the right FMA. This happened at 2113ft. The plane took a short dive after, but I reactivated APP later and the plane made a smooth touchdown.Ron

[ronzie 21]

>JAVSI is the last intersection for the SADDE6 arrival just>before vectors to approach, it is a 360 turn but I usually>enter GAATE at runway heading with the published altitude of>5000. >>Im confused on how to approach the GS. Do I activate APP with>the GS above or below me? If I enter at GAATE, I am above the>GS. So I properly lock on to the GS with G/S displayed in the>FMA in green, then I reset the ALT to the missed approach>altitude (which is 800 for 25L at KLAX). Right?The GS indicator must be above when activating approach.>>Im doing the test flight but I will save to a point just>before I make the turn to GAATE, so I dont have to fly an hour>to test.>>>EDIT: I just finished the test flight, a little better this>time, but shortly after I went to flaps 25, ILAX DME 8.1; CMD>B went out in the MCP, G/S disappeared from the FMA and CWS P>showed up in yellow just below the right FMA. This happened at>2113ft. The plane took a short dive after, but I reactivated>APP later and the plane made a smooth touchdown.>>RonSomething happened to bring you outside of the flight envelope where the A/P could not compensate. Was your approach speed too high for flaps 25? Did you configure the landing parameters for your desired flaps in the index/approach page so the speed bugs were correct? Do you have turbulence from weather or aircraft wake simulated? If so you may have run out of pitch trim range controlled by the A/P. CWS-P means I believe that control is returned to the yoke but present altitude and heading will be maintained and then adjusted as you manipulate the yoke. The fact that yhou regained APP mode later in means you must have corrected the path/speed so A/P could maintain control again.Pardon me if I am repeating but I suggest if you do not have one of the downloaded 737NG tutorials you try to obtain one. I purchased Mike Ray's 700 series pc sim book (not the checkride series) and many of the situations we are discussing are in there. I can't look right now but the initial level-1 tutorial in there is in a similar situation. For me it was a wise investment. You are doing very well but there are some finer practical points in there about flight ops and FMC work. www.utem.com for sample pages. The versions of his book furnished with some vendors models is not the complete book according to various reviews. The book lacks an index but I just make my own for prominent things especially the short FMC setup on page 67 I use as a checklist.Remember that saving a flight in the 737 and recalling does not restore all panel/FMC parameters.Later on today I'll download all the KLAX procedures from the resources section of flightaware.com where you can get them in one file.

[ronzie 21]

FYI:I downloaded the plate collection so I've visualized the entire approach.If you look at the vertical profile the G/S if received would be above you at GAATE if you were at 5000. Be sure your altimeter was set to local pressure, not standard pressure. It should have been set to local as you descended through FL180 (for the US).Note on the vertical profile the wedge does not begin until just past HUNDA with a GS intercept at 3200 or lower as defined by ATC. Following the minimum altitudes once past GAATE you can descend to 3500 thence to 3200 or directly to 1900 if required by ATC (not reccommended since flying level at 1900 to LIMMA sucks gas compared to keeping some descent rate). At HUNDA you should have stable GS reception and catch the GS at 3200 as indicated or if allowed continue ALT descent to 1900 flying level until intercepting the GS at 1900 at LIMMA, the FAF. This is not a constant descent approach. If you want to do a VNAV approach you can put the altitudes in the FMC at GAATE, and HUNDA which should be present if you use the ARR on the DEPARR page and the ILS 25L is loaded under RWY. This would be done farther out before you get there with editing on the LEGS page if needed. Normally from JAVSI you would be vectored to the correct altitudes to line you up according to the STAR description page.You must reduce the MCP altitude as you descend with VNAV or you will level out at indicated. So if you use the waypoint altitudes with speed restrictions for your landing profile - don't forget flaps- you would rotate the MCP knob, not push, to the minimums at the next waypoint and when you see the GS above coming down to you punch APP to capture the GS. One thing I do is use VOR-LOC if I want to continue to control ALT which gets me locked horizontally but I can still use MCP SPD and ALT until I can punch APP to get me locked on the GS.Usually by the time I'm on approach I'm off VNAV anyway and using SPD and ALT and HDG toward the end as I turn to the intersection vector. I'm down to about 180 with appropriate flaps if I'm 17 miles out and slow to flaps 35 VREF +5 about 12 out and by the FAF I've dropped gear I'm on final flaps and Vref +5 for that setting. This is all done with MCP speed or you can manipulate throttles if you wish but without copilot assistance it is a lot to handle.Last but not least since this is a short flight make sure you are not over landing weight on arrival. This could cause the sudden dive you are experiencing as the elevator control by A/P GS may not have enough authority as you slow and you also may be experiencing a stall. The FMC APPROACH page should give you an indication as it should at least in FS follow your current gross weight when you set the parameters for your FLAPS.Hope this helps somewhat and I'm sure someone else more experienced could partake of this thread as I'm still fairly new to this much of a complex aircraft.

[Guest rontheancient]

Thanks again for the help, I will be ordering Mike Ray's guide soon and will try another test flight.Ron