Ok.. first off.. I've beed doing this training loop that I got told about from PS1.3A... Basically pick a single strip airfield.. get yourself set up.. Put a marker at the threshold where you start and a beam at 90 degrees to that out on your FMC.. Program in your take off data but leave autopilot F/D and A/T off.. Flaps 10.. flight straight ahead till 500 feet.. make a 90 degree turn to the left.. then continue climb to 1700 feet, then turn left again 90 degrees.. maintain flap 10 speed + 10.. while flying on the downwind leg.. set the FMC for landing.. get the speed VREF.. Then upon crossing the beam start the clock... at 30 seconds select flaps 20 gear down.. and at 40 seconds start another 90 left turn begining your descent.. control the desent.. when wings level.. make the final 90 degree left turn back to the runway.. select landing flaps slow to VREF.. and land.. on landing.. wheels down.. select flaps 20.. then takeoff power.. on takeoff retract to flaps 10 and at 500 feet start the turn left again... repeat this till you get bored..oooo it's hard... I mean I think this will sepearate the men from the boys as it were.. I mean I can fly this.. but I wouldn't say with tremendous accuracy.. I find it hard to get flap 10 speed + 10 while making sure I don't bust through 1700 feet.. downwind leg is easy.. setup etc.. then the turns and descent.. I start to slow on the final turn and use thrust to keep my descent under control as well as using the pitch... flaps 30 throws everything all over as the extra lift well and truly messes up my descent.. but it HAS to be done.. at this point I'm usually facing the runway but not really inline... sharp banks left or right to line up.. throttle right back to get to VREF and them put her down gently.. I mean.. I can do it.. but I wouldn't say I can do it very well.. I'm going to keep practicing this one..If anyone has any hints as to how to do this.. let me know.. I'd be all ears!.. Maybe some of you guys use VATSIM or Teamspeak.. we can have a chat.. Seriously I find normal flying of the 747-400 with a/p help a doddle and childs play now really.. I want to really get my manual flying sorted out.. I find ILS approaches easy.. but they're not like this.. not so urgent or fast.. LOADS of time to line up.. LOADS of time to get the descent right.. and NO major turning..Thought I'd share it with the PMDG community..Another thing.. and minor.. for the tech heads at PMDG.. for some reason.. I ONLY get the audio warnings for height.. FIVE.. HUNDRED.... ONE HUNDRED... FIFTY.. FORTY... THIRTY... etc.. the FIRST time I do the landing in this circuit.. next time I do it.. I get nothing.. any reason?Cheers all... have a go at the circuit.. let's compare notes :)Craig

Interesting circuit there Craig. I might test it some day! ;-)>Another thing.. and minor.. for the tech heads at PMDG.. for some >reason.. I ONLY get the audio warnings for height.. FIVE.. HUNDRED.... >ONE HUNDRED... FIFTY.. FORTY... THIRTY... etc.. the FIRST time I do the >landing in this circuit.. next time I do it.. I get nothing.. any >reason?In the NG you need to climb above 2500 ft, I think it was, to reset the GPWS RA callouts. And if my memory serves me right this is as on the real bird as well. If the same mechanisms for resetting the GPWS RA callouts aplies to the 747 as for the NG then the above would be the reason.Hope it helps,

You seem to be executing an excercise designed for props on a jet ... highly unrealistic. You are torturing yourself unnecessarily. Climb to at least 5000 ft with a 20 mile stretch downwind to make it more jet-like.

>You are torturing yourself unnecessarily. That's kind of the point. :)

Oh thanks for the clarification on the GPWS.. :)... OK.. so some minor edits here..I went to my mates and saw it done on one of the PS1.3 videos.. BOY.. can that guy fly! It's a training setup at Billund Denmark... EKBI for KLM..Initial Prep************Light Weight 747... Flaps 20 take off.. V2 about 145 - 150 ish looked like.. Set a beam at 90 degrees to threshold.. Set V1 VR V2 on PFD... Select same runway for departing as arrival and the runway you're on.Autothrottle.. A/P and F/D remain OFF..Here we go**********1 - Gear up... 2 - Climb to radio alt 500 feet.. start 90 degree turn left..3 - Continue climb to 1,700 feet.. once there.. select flaps 10 + 10 speed on the dial and set flaps 10.. begin to slow.. once stable.. start next 90 degree left turn..4 - Stabilised downwind check your VREF for landing.. (I use flaps 30 like he does)5 - As you pass the beam from the threshold start the clock.6 - At 30 seconds select flaps 20 speed flaps 20 + 10 and gear down.7 - At 40 seconds start the next 90 degree turn left.8 - Once level from that turn select landing VREF and flaps 309 - Make final turn left to runway.10 - Land.. once landing and rolling below 110.. ramp up engines for take off.. and repeat.I am gonna practice this again today.. it's definitely doable.. this guy does it really well on PS1.3A so I am going to try to perfect it.. pretty impressive.. I'd really like to know how the PMDG pilots get on with this.. Try it out and see how you do :)CheersCraig

5000 is too much, making the circuit unnecessary long.2000/2500 above the ground is enough with turning base at 15 nm to TH.After turning base set flaps 10 and reduce speed to 180/190(If you want it a little more challanging you can reduce thrust shortly before commencing the turn, thus reducing speed while making a 90

> You seem to be executing an excercise designed for props on a jet ... highly unrealistic.I have a diagram from a 727 AOM that shows just about this kind of manoeuvre -- 1500 feet AGL, and 40 (or 45?) seconds from the position abeam the threshold to the point where you initiate the turn to base.If this is how they do it in 727s, 747s should be about the same -- the speeds are comparable...Martin