Upcoming Advanced Tutorial

[Shmiffy 0]

Hi Guys:I was wondering what would be covered in the advanced tutorial?At the moment, i am interested in learning more about fuel planning for the MD11, Long Haul Operations, winds aloft, holding patterns, and diversions.I appreciate that all of this is available in the manual, but at its current rate, my printer should have finished with it in early 2012. ;)CheersPaul

[Shmiffy 0]

;)Rapidly slipping to the bottom of the second page!CheersPaul

[Guest PIC]

Well, I'm quite disappointed by the fact that I didn't find any fuel planning charts with the program.

[Andymk 2]

Is there a need for fuel planning charts? Everything I need to work out my fuel load is done in the FMS. Calculating Alternates, reserves, extra, its all there for you I think isnt it?on a side note, I do remember someone saying recently that some information just wasnt available from the manufacturer, thus didnt appear in the manuals.

[Guest PIC]

The FMS is not meant to be used for flight planing purpose and shall not be considered as an accurate tool in regard of fuel prediction!And since we don't have the planning program used by companies ops we need those d*#&@! tables...If someone find those charts for me I'll do a little tutorial here. I've just finished my ATPL exams I'll be able to explain you exactly how to do this.

[michal 44]

The tutorial should first cover the absolute basics: hand flying, envelope protection, basic pattern flying and to&goes, non-precision approaches.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[Guest Mower]

LISTEN: No serious sim flyer here is without either Flightsim Commander or FS Build for route planning. We need a fuel plannere to go with this. The FMS was not designed nor is it ideally suited for route PLANNING and CONSTRUCTION!Carry on.

[Andymk 2]

As for the fuel charts, like Robert has already mentioned, some data was unavailable from the manufacturer. Whether this includes fuel charts or now, I'm not sure, but I'd assume its a good reason why its not there.And Im sorry but can you explain why you're so adamant that the FMS shouldnt be used for fuel planning? (btw we are only talking fuel planning, not route planning)It has all the variables for fuel consumption, it has all the variables for payload. It can compute taxi fuel, alternate landings, add reserve fuel, cost index.The only thing I can see that it cant prep for is winds aloft. And Im sure that Ive already read on here from someone from PMDG recommending the FMS as a pretty good fuel planner.So far Ive used the FMS for all my fuel planning, and its worked spot on.

[Shmiffy 0]

Hello Andy:The FMC Can indeed account for winds aloft, provided that you plug them into the FMC, and that the FMC is being given the right winds (see my ASX post).I appreciate that you are happy to plan with the FMC your fuel requirements. But a large part of the sim experience for myself and many others is the flight planning proccess itself. To a certain extent, the flying is secondary.The fuel planning process in the real world is acheived by reference to the approrpriate charts and a seriously expensive planning computer. I use Flight Operations Centre or FSBuild for my flight planning. And with the aid of a decent aircraft profile that includes incredibly detailed fuel burn data, i can pretty much guarantee that the fuel i plan to land with, will indeed be the fuel i arrive with. within about 1,000Kg's.Within the tutorials, i was hoping that the fuel planning aspect was going to cover the FMC method of fuel planning and upload, but having located the appropriate page of the manual after the third ink cartridge change ;) i have managed to get through that myself. Apart from the head wind travelling east/west on my west/east NAT trek yesterday, i would have probably arrived with a perfectly acceptable 10.0 on board (tonnes) rather than the 3.8 that i did due to ASX weirdness.CheersPaul

[michal 44]

>planning computer. I use Flight Operations Centre or FSBuild>for my flight planning. I don't know what the exact capabilities of these tools are but I seriously doubt they offer true wind optimal trajectories. Any serious long-haul operator flying any route say over 3 hrs in duration would use such sophisticated flight planning software since it can result in significant fuel savings. So unless your planning involves true search for wind optimal routes your flight plan can in fact be significantly off from its real world counterpart. So I hope you realize that your quest for realism can be seriously impaired right from the start.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[Shmiffy 0]

Michael:FOC Does indeed look at a wind optimal trajectory, provided it has several routings to compare. Where posssible, i try and give it a couple of the real world options, and let it think about it from there.CheersPaul

[Andymk 2]

No offense Paul, I was just meaning to say that despite what had previously been said, the FMS could be used as a fuel planning tool adequately when lacking fuel charts or other flight management software.But I agree that it isnt the solution for everyone, and I too do use FSBuild for fuel planning on NAT routes in the 747X.cheersAndy

[Shmiffy 0]

Hi Andy:No offence taken mate :) Sorry if my response intimated that it was.You offer a perfectly valid point, and certainly in the absence of the Fuel Planning charts, then i am happy to go with the FMC methods. If it wasnt for the wind oddities experienced in my Trans Atlantic flights, i am quite certain that the calculations of the FMC regarding fuel would have been perfectly acceptable.CheersPaul