As real as it gets???

[Guest joea]

John, some comments, first the A320 is NOT being produced by the PIC team just Wilco. Second, I appreciate your point about hat switches but do you think you could really keep the hat switch pressed while programming and navigating the FMC pages??? Alos be aware World Air Sim has a checkered past so you should not be using them as a comparison. Thanks for your comments.

[Guest]

BobThanks for your response to my post.Of course all the die hard PIC767 fans were going to rebuke my thread, I expected nothing less. As I have already stated I was only making a personal comment on the way I see the main 2d panel nothing more, nothing less. At no time was I slagging the overall quality of the product. As a matter of interest I have flown the product on a friends computer and it was great (so I do feel I am able to make comments). You may well be right about the rational that was put into the panel; but the fact still remains (to me anyway) that this panel is visually not a good reprsentation of a 757/767 panel, yes I know it is close!. When I look at photographs of 767 & 757 cockpits the first thing I see is the 4 crt screens & featured prominently between them are the standby instruments (capt view). Please do not take what I state here personlly. Its merely my view.regards: Tom

[michal 44]

Tom,I am a big 767PIC fan but I see absolutely no problem with your original post. On the other hand I am very disappointed with some of my PIC- friends and how they reacted. Being in love with this product it does not mean I have to stay blind and oblivious to some of the design issues. I still think that TRI's scrolling cocpkits are the best way out of this dilemma (not available in the MSFS world) however I did adjust to the PIC's 'way' fairly quickly too. It all depends how your brain can treat different layouts and compensate for it. I guess I am finding my brain to be a fairly flexible device. Michael J.

[bobbyjoh 11]

Hi Tom,Your comments are well taken, and for the record you are right, there were some items that the team chose to "alter", make no mistake that is a TRUE observation. Now the issue is not 100% realism, but 100% functionality.Lets take what the rational during the design process. All of the switches, gauges, dials, crt's on the PIC 767 panel function almost exactly the same as the real aircraft. The standby instruments would have added NO function if they were placed on the panel except to takeup real-estate which is needed for readability. If the electrical systems fail on the PIC panel, then the user has the option to bring those instruments into view, and they fly the plane from the standby instruments. The question that must be asked, what MUST you display for the sim pilot versus what is "nice" to have. I think the team made the right choices.Michael J made the point that Fly uses the pointer method to move over the panel, nice as this approach sounds, it has some serious draw backs. I hope that when MS releases the next version of MSFS it will have a dynamic virtual panel that moves around the paneel eye view the same as a human eye would do. Panel design is not easy, and as I have said before, after two years the PIC 767 panel is still by far the best on the market.Bob JohnsonDenver

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

"One advantage over pic was the fact that there was no need for pop-ups and windows."I'd say that there would be both advantages and disadvantages to this display type. A drawback, for example, would be during engine start, where procedures may dictate that you have to have one hand on the fuel cutoff lever, one hand on the start switch and an eye on your displays... in case you have to abort the start in a hurry (say, due to impending hot start or an engine fire). Positioning the windows in certain places may give you an edge over scrolling (Hot starts require quick reactions on these type of engines).Cheers.Ian

[KevinAu 441]

You're right, it was the mouse. I actually did use to play with Fly! back when I was flying the Navajo and Fly! had the only decent Navajo out there. However, whether I meant arrow keys or mouse, in real life you would use neither of those to look around with. The point was that TGM was making a sneering, ridiculous observation using veiled fighting words about 767PIC on the 767PIC forum. And he has definitely "illicited" all the attention he wants.

[michal 44]

>making a sneering, ridiculous observation using veiled >fighting words Kevin,I guess this is were we disagree. I re-read his original post and I see none of the above. I must be fairly thick-skinned and I tend to avoid reading "between-the-lines". I also tend to give people benefit of a doubt as to their true intentions since I myself have been often 'guilty' of posting stuff that was completely misread and twist-interpreted by others.Michael J.

[Guest]

Tom,with all due respect, i think you need to get a life, this is flight sim, nothing is 100% perfect in flight sim, and i must say, PIC Team did a damn good job with the Panel, much better than a lot i've seen. If you expect to get an add-on for 30 bucks that has absolutely everything 100% perfect just like the real thing, you're on the wrong planet, i cannot believe you said what you did, i've made this suggestion to people like you before, and it looks like i'm gonna have to make it again, go get a real well paid job, save up a few million bucks and go buy your very own, real, 100% perfect airplane fresh from the Boeing factory, thats the only way you're gonna get the level of realism you want.It really gets me that people like the PIC Team put in loads of work for us, sell their wonderful product for a measly 30 bucks, and then people like you come along and say, oh thats not very good, look that looks slightly the wrong color, oh no, the instrument is slightly too big. :(Cheers,Jeff.EGNX

[Guest]

JeffAre you for real??I did not realise that you had shares in Wilco publishing. You must have because its the only reason I can think of for you to make the remarks you've made. Don't come onto this forum and attack me and expect to have it go unchallenged. Keep your idiotic posts to your self. I would say to you to also "go and get a life". I am very disappointed with your very childish comments Jeff.Tom

[Guest]

Hi there,Are you for real??YesI did not realise that you had shares in Wilco publishing. You must have because its the only reason I can think of for you to make the remarks you've made.No, PIC Team is not Wilco Publishing, they just use Wilco to publish their products, i just like PIC Teams work a lot Don't come onto this forum and attack me and expect to have it go unchallenged.I didn't attack you, i simply had my say, and i don't expect to go unchallenged, that's part of the fun of posting in a forumI would say to you to also "go and get a life".I would say that to me too :)I am very disappointed with your very childish comments Jeff.I've only been saying the same sort of thing as everyone else in this threadCheers,Jeff.EGNXI do appologise if i did offend you in any way, it's just that a lot of work does go into these products, and nothing can be done absolutely perfect due to it having to fit on a monitor, and due to flight sim limitations. I hope you understand, once again, i'm sorry :)

[Guest]

Jeff,Thank you. I accept your apology. As I have already stated in previous posts if you wish to discuss the subject, fine(after all thats what the forums are for). If you wish to have a go at people who post messages simply because you do like their point of view, is not (in my opinion) a good focal point for a forum discussion. Peoples view of a product(s) vary greatly and while you do not have to like those views or agree with them you do have to accept them for what they are, their opinions. This I feel is the basis for good discussions on these forums about products we use.I won't reply again Jeff, but again thanks for your apology.regards:Tom